Sexual harassment

[Kerwin]

So your solution to something like this is just stop playing?

Quit nit picking and taking things out of context. Man, you are one for attention.

That's not what he said. Please read.

[Gizensha]

This can't be conflated to real abuse in any way. You can block said person from contacting you. You can't do the same in real life. It's nowhere near as easy. As for the blackmail bits, yes that was wrong and possibly illegal (not educated enough in the law to fully say) but I don't think there needs to be a big movement over something that is ultimately a very minor issue. You have all the tools you can ask for to deal with this.

So behavior of people shouldn't be kept to standard because you can block after the damage was done? What if abuser creates alternative accounts (not unheard of)? How many instances of abuse would be ok this way?

[Rubiss]

So behavior of people shouldn't be kept to standard because you can block after the damage was done? What if abuser creates alternative accounts (not unheard of)? How many instances of abuse would be ok this way?

You also have the option of blocking before the damage is done too. If said "abuser" makes multiple accounts (which on FFXIV would be quite a boon to SquareEnix) you simply block each one. It is much more effort on their end to make an account than for you to block and they will move onto another "victim". My point is, there exists tools in almost every medium of social media and game to ignore someone. People should be held accountable for themselves. Both "abusers" and "victims" on the internet.

[Elamys]

My point is, there exists tools in almost every medium of social media and game to ignore someone. People should be held accountable for themselves. Both "abusers" and "victims" on the internet.

Again, a potential abuser can get information from you far before they show signs of being an abuser...people don't just immediately start acting like that, they get close to you first, and if they have that information on you, and threaten to use it against you (show up at your house or place of work, or doxx you, or anything like that) how is blocking them going to help? Even reporting to a GM may not help because SE will only act on information relayed in game. Please stop blaming victims for this, it's really not a good look for you. Oh, and police frequently don't take reports of online harassment seriously, much like the rest of you here.

They make multiple accounts or alts, you block them, they have their friends help, you block them, they follow you around in game well you can't help that, they say bad things about you to others you can't necessarily defend yourself, you transfer servers or change character names and they find out where you went (remember it's EXTREMELY easy to find out a character's new name via Lodestone ID), you delete an old character and start over and they may STILL find you, in the meantime all of this is extremely mentally and emotionally taxing and suddenly you no longer want to participate in an activity you once loved and enjoyed and you drift away from the communities you were a part of and if they have RL information you may even be worried about that. But yeah, blocking will solve the problem.

[Solarra]

It's just online

I'm not sure if you were referring to the Moogle Post issue because that definitely was not just online. Anyway, it doesn't matter, online interactions are still subject to laws, it's not a special exempt zone where people can do what they like and face no consequences.

It's honestly a non-issue. If you gave nudes to someone online and were then blackmailed I mean... it sucks but ultimately it is your fault.

So, if you trust someone and they abuse your trust, that's your fault? And even if they go as far as blackmail, that's still completely on you? I disagree.
I'm not suggesting people shouldn't take steps to protect themselves, but a person who breaks someone's trust like that is still the one at fault, regardless.
Also see above: laws still apply.

You can't really be sexually harassed in a game, especially when you as a player have the tools to stop it, as well as a pretty supportive GM staff willing to assist.

Ha! So the creepy Guild leader who basically got me to the point where I chose to abandon another game and three characters I'd put a lot of time into, rather than deal with any more unwanted advances, suggestive gifts, creepy comments etc, wasn't really harassing me? It certainly felt real.

I'm not talking about a throwaway line about my character's looks or a single invite to ERP, this was weeks of following my character around and constant pestering via chat and in-game mail. I honestly don't think anyone who dismisses this sort of behaviour as trivial can have experienced it.

[Gizensha]

You also have the option of blocking before the damage is done too. If said "abuser" makes multiple accounts (which on FFXIV would be quite a boon to SquareEnix) you simply block each one. It is much more effort on their end to make an account than for you to block and they will move onto another "victim". My point is, there exists tools in almost every medium of social media and game to ignore someone. People should be held accountable for themselves. Both "abusers" and "victims" on the internet.

But you have this tools in case of phones and even snail mail. Just block the number (the abuser would probably get prepaid) or throw the mail to trash, yet in real life these venues of abuse have lead to legal consequences. How is internet different? Why abuse on internet isn't as real as that through phone for example?

[Rubiss]

Again, a potential abuser can get information from you far before they show signs of being an abuser...people don't just immediately start acting like that, they get close to you first, and if they have that information on you, and threaten to use it against you (show up at your house or place of work, or doxx you, or anything like that) how is blocking them going to help? Even reporting to a GM may not help because SE will only act on information relayed in game. Please stop blaming victims for this, it's really not a good look for you. Oh, and police frequently don't take reports of online harassment seriously, much like the rest of you here.

They make multiple accounts or alts, you block them, they have their friends help, you block them, they follow you around in game well you can't help that, they say bad things about you to others you can't necessarily defend yourself, you transfer servers or change character names and they find out where you went (remember it's EXTREMELY easy to find out a character's new name via Lodestone ID), you delete an old character and start over and they may STILL find you, in the meantime all of this is extremely mentally and emotionally taxing and suddenly you no longer want to participate in an activity you once loved and enjoyed and you drift away from the communities you were a part of and if they have RL information you may even be worried about that. But yeah, blocking will solve the problem.

There's a reason why the police don't take it very seriously. It's not very serious. Honestly if some gossiping person came up to me and told me information about someone, primarily negative, I'd wonder what their problem is, moreso than the person they are talking about. I mean, what information is so dastardly that you must concede to some random online? Your address? What's that going to do? Why do they even have your address to begin with? Will they send you manure in a box? Glitter bomb? That's a physical thing.

You don't even need to transfer servers. If someone is stalking you to this degree, you can report that. Again, in the time it takes them to make a new account (which also needs a new email, etc) you blocking them gives them a net loss in time. No one will keep this up. I think the victim complex needs to ease up. People have far more power than they think, especially online.

And I'm sorry but if you give anyone your address or even nudes of yourself with your face in it, I mean, that's on you. Yes obviously the person using this against you is bad, but honestly, why would you give anyone your address online? I get it. Emotional abuse, manipulation, etc, etc. But this isn't a FFXIV problem.

Ha! So the creepy Guild leader who basically got me to the point where I chose to abandon another game and three characters I'd put a lot of time into, rather than deal with any more unwanted advances, suggestive gifts, creepy comments etc, wasn't really harassing me? It certainly felt real.

I'm not talking about a throwaway line about my character's looks or a single invite to ERP, this was weeks of following my character around and constant pestering via chat and in-game mail. I honestly don't think anyone who dismisses this sort of behaviour as trivial can have experienced it.

I mean, it sounds like you overreacted. Just block him, leave the guild if necessary. Losing 3 characters over it? Sorry but I think you need to toughen up. You know what I did when I got a stalker? I ended things and blocked them.

[Elamys]

And I'm sorry but if you give anyone your address or even nudes of yourself with your face in it, I mean, that's on you. Yes obviously the person using this against you is bad, but honestly, why would you give anyone your address online? I get it. Emotional abuse, manipulation, etc, etc. But this isn't a FFXIV problem.

It's very clear to me with this post that you do not understand what we are talking about. Have a good night, I guess. If you have some free time you may want to read about the laws on harassment, threats (particularly in relation to suicide or attack) and revenge porn. Maybe look up a few articles on why the victims of abuse can't so easily walk away. Perhaps then you can have an actual understanding of this conversation.

Also, maybe move into the year 2018 and realize that people do form important, strong, and lasting relationships online. I myself am living with and engaged to someone I met online. Seems to have worked out just fine. These are real people online. And just like any other person, sometimes things go wrong.

[Rogatum]

Starting to think some people here have a personal interest in NOT dealing with this issue...

What is this view based off? Is it wrong to still believe in innocent until proven guilty? Is the system perfect? Far from it. Do investigations take time? Yes. Do I feel as if the community should take action against a person that has yet to be proven guilty most differently not. Those who are victims of abuse have many avenues they can take, but I will never be for trying to rally the community together to act on what amounts to an emotional response fueled by pity or remorse, or any other emotion. If that makes me a horrible person to hold off judgment until all the facts are presented because well people have the capacity of lie or even misread certain interactions so be it. Speaking in the general sense here not just about the most recent case. The proper authorities cannot do anything to help unless those being impacted seek out help. Even if they do seek out it is unreasonable to think that a resolution will happen overnight, which one reason I do feel people seek a community response. At times I am sure despite wanting to most authorities cannot act on a emotional response they have to go based off the facts, and the longer people wait to come forward to them regarding such issues it just makes things that much harder to prove, thus making a long investigation process even longer.

[Rubiss]

It's very clear to me with this post that you do not understand what we are talking about. Have a good night, I guess. If you have some free time you may want to read about the laws on harassment, threats (particularly in relation to suicide or attack) and revenge porn. Maybe look up a few articles on why the victims of abuse can't so easily walk away. Perhaps then you can have an actual understanding of this conversation.

Again, I don't see how this is a FFXIV problem. If you think you can sue someone over harassment, then do it. But don't cry about it on FFXIV. You have more than enough ways to stop someone from bothering you. Again, this is online. Stop conflating it with real abuse. You can quite easily walk away from someone.