Sexual harassment

[KaivaC]

snip

I'm sorry, but first off, this is nothing in this thread that should be remotely considered hilarious by any means. Not the context of the thread, not the responses made by posters thus far, not any of it. Second, this thread has probably brought more awareness of this back into the spotlight, that yes, this can and has happened.

When something occurs outside of the game, like Discord or even at the Moogle Post, there is really nothing a GM can do. And again, it is not that simple to call law enforcement if you're in the thick of things while you're in an emotionally vulnerable position. A lot of people are not understanding that some people find it incredibly difficult to call law enforcement or help. This has less to do with common sense and more to do with people who are victims being unable, whether emotionally or rationally, to take those steps towards getting out of some situations.

[BillyKaplan]

I'm sorry, but first off, this is nothing in this thread that should be remotely considered hilarious by any means.

This a billion times over.

A lot of people are not understanding that some people find it incredibly difficult to call law enforcement or help. This has less to do with common sense and more to do with people who are victims being unable, whether emotionally or rationally, to take those steps towards getting out of some situations.

I'm going to expand on that a bit. To certain demographics, calling law enforcement is a hazard in and of itself. People of color; immigrants; queer and transsexual people; and heaven forbid if you're a cross between any of those groups. How often do we hear stories of people of color in the US who called the police, only to be thought to be the culprits of the crime they were reporting? If not shot outright?
Telling people to call the authorities comes from a position of privilege many victims of abuse do not benefit from.

[Mixt]

I'm going to expand on that a bit. To certain demographics, calling law enforcement is a hazard in and of itself. People of color; immigrants; queer and transsexual people; and heaven forbid if you're a cross between any of those groups. How often do we hear stories of people of color in the US who called the police, only to be thought to be the culprits of the crime they were reporting? If not shot outright?
Telling people to call the authorities comes from a position of privilege many victims of abuse do not benefit from.

This is also something you need to worry about.

Abuse victim calls the police...too bad, the victim is a minority, the police responds by arresting her instead on the spot...or even outright putting a bullet in her head.

You try to escape the abuser, and then the police gets you instead because they are racist, homophobic, corrupt, or any combination of all three.

Rock and a hard place people.

For minorities there truly is no way out.

[Rubiss]

This is also something you need to worry about.

Abuse victim calls the police...too bad, the victim is a minority, the police responds by arresting her instead on the spot...or even outright putting a bullet in her head.

You try to escape the abuser, and then the police gets you instead because they are racist, homophobic, corrupt, or any combination of all three.

Rock and a hard place people.

For minorities there truly is no way out.

Oh lord. You took this to a whole new level. Now we're bringing race into this? The FFXIV online abused minorities. Just wow.

[NephthysVasudan]

This is also something you need to worry about.

Abuse victim calls the police...too bad, the victim is a minority, the police responds by arresting her instead on the spot...or even outright putting a bullet in her head.

You try to escape the abuser, and then the police gets you instead because they are racist, homophobic, corrupt, or any combination of all three.

Rock and a hard place people.

For minorities there truly is no way out.

Writing works of fiction to scare people is also wrong.
There are so many things wrong with this I can't even begin to pick it apart.

[NephthysVasudan]

<snip>

You should read my post in full next time.
You'll find it makes you less foolish over all.
Because you just repeated what I said.

[KaivaC]

You should read my post in full next time.
You'll find it makes you less foolish over all.
Because you just repeated what I said.

Your post is suggesting that it's really easy to just make a decision, get up, and just go DO something about it. I am saying that it is not that simple for some people. Some are afraid of the repercussions if they do step up and say no more, or take it to the next step and go to law enforcement. You are right that these are the steps that need to be taken in order to address something like this, but the person who finds themselves in this situation may not be capable of making that decision. It's just...not that simple. It is a known fact that a lot of victims in situations like these are terrified of coming forward to address something like this. That was the point I was trying to get across when I quoted you. And sometimes, an outside party may not even know what's going on because the victim themselves are good at hiding away their fears and pain because that's what they started to be accustomed to.

It's one thing to just blist in game. But as I've said before on the subject, a situation like what was reported in the OP can't be resolved by simply blisting. This is a real life situation and is just turning messier by the hour, and sadly, it's turning into a public war.

I think a lot of people do understand that it's difficult. But what then? What is society supposed to do for victims who won't reveal their situation or ask for help? Vulnerable people who get preyed on have all my sympathies but my sympathy won't get them to safety or heal the damage that continues being done.

Sadly, I don't believe there's much society can do further, from my viewpoint. At the end of the day, it comes down on those vulnerable individuals to be able to step forward. The best society can do in my opinion is just remain supportive of the programs and laws designed to combat the stigma that nobody cares/wants to help. It's a hard situation for me to really speak on because I've personally dealt with it a lot. And honestly, I wish I could give an answer that's more than what I've stated...but I can't, because the only thing I personally learned was finding the strength to say no more.

It's honestly a hard question to tackle.

[NephthysVasudan]

<snip>

I never said it was easy.
You ASSUMED..it was.
I said it was simple.
Simple can be hard as hell.

Stop jumping to conclusions.
We have no right or say in what the victim will do or say.
Forcing them and discussing what should be done as a 3rd party is an insult and a joke to them.
Educate them....help them. But do not presume to act on their behalf.

[Reinha]

Sadly, I don't believe there's much society can do further, from my viewpoint. At the end of the day, it comes down on those vulnerable individuals to be able to step forward. The best society can do in my opinion is just remain supportive of the programs and laws designed to combat the stigma that nobody cares/wants to help.

I want to believe that most people would delete sexual harassment out of existence with the snap of their fingers, if they could. Even the victim blamers. People in society are told to care about this issue and try to fix it, and we come equipped with support groups, hotlines, lawyers, police, workplace codes of conduct, safehouses and public media. We are ready to tackle this issue. Then some victims don't contact support networks, don't report to law enforcement, don't try to remove themselves from the situation and don't let things go public. Because it's too hard and they can't cope with the fallout.

While totally understandable that a damaged person can't always make the right decisions, it can also be very frustrating for the other side to feel impotent to help as a result of the victim's own (in)actions. They might wrongly take that frustration out on the victims of abuse by victim blaming despite the fact that the victims have too much on their plate already and never wanted to be in that situation to begin with. So even if it originates from good intentions, putting too much pressure on victims can have the opposite effect from being helpful.

[Reinha]

A lot of people are not understanding that some people find it incredibly difficult to call law enforcement or help.

I think a lot of people do understand that it's difficult. But what then? What is society supposed to do for victims who won't reveal their situation or ask for help? Vulnerable people who get preyed on have all my sympathies but my sympathy won't get them to safety or heal the damage that continues being done.