selling wins

[Rita1989]

It is. I think one of the reasons why SE don't really crack down on this particular form of RMT is because it doesn't really impact the game itself very much.

Except at least one of these groups literally sells pvp rank in the feast which effects anyone who is trying to get a top 100 finish.

SE really needs to possibly relook its policy on this one, apparently the recent reddit post got some traction on the jp community as well so maybe it will get to someone.

The world first race at this point is basically a race to see who can sell the content first.

[Penthea]

I call bull on this.

Then you don't know anything about the raiding scene. Sorry but you really don't if you're going to assume most raiding teams engage in RMT or botting. Most raiders are just ordinary players, and the most they do that is against the Terms of Use is have a parser.

I agree that RMT and botting is bad and that defending it is disgraceful, but you're frankly wrong in your thinking that this is common practise among raiders.

Except at least one of these groups literally sells pvp rank in the feast which effects anyone who is trying to get a top 100 finish.

I was completely unaware of this. Well then, I guess in some cases it can affect other players. But my point still stands about the effect being very minor outside those involved. SE are likely going to do very little unless it actually severely impacts enough players. Hell even the outrage of this doesn't hold a candle to the outrage over the housing situation in 4.1. We're going to need that level of salt before we see decisive action from SE about raiders selling kills for real cash.

[KisaiTenshi]

I call bull on this. enough do it or support it that the culture is somehow shifted to where people are actually seriously defending this practice. The change is what gets me; i expect world firsters to be corrupt as hell; the big HNM shells on FFXI all botted, I doubt its much different here. But that thread surprised me in just how many people thought it wasn't an issue whatsoever.

That would not surprise me at all, but I also somehow doubt 99% of raiders are doing this. If such was the case that content would get nerfed and no more hard content would ever be produced for the game.

"Buying a clear" is not an earned clear. All the more reason for SE to ban players who engage in this buying or selling.

Except at least one of these groups literally sells pvp rank in the feast which effects anyone who is trying to get a top 100 finish.

SE really needs to possibly relook its policy on this one, apparently the recent reddit post got some traction on the jp community as well so maybe it will get to someone.

The world first race at this point is basically a race to see who can sell the content first.

Then report it.

[whiskeybravo]

I call bull on this. enough do it or support it that the culture is somehow shifted to where people are actually seriously defending this practice. The change is what gets me; i expect world firsters to be corrupt as hell; the big HNM shells on FFXI all botted, I doubt its much different here. But that thread surprised me in just how many people thought it wasn't an issue whatsoever.

Based on what evidence?

There's an "elite" handful selling hardcore content for runs. Most people are barely capable of clearing content to begin with, much less carrying dead weight. Need to check yo self - passive resignation of the facts doesn't mean we believe it's appropriate. If SE want's to crack down RMT they are more than capable. Not like we are here trying to create a roadblock.

[Rita1989]

Then report it.

With the current policy you can't report them with out getting them to admit it with in game chat which they won't do that's why they always have a discord link in the PF.

[RiyahArp]

Then you don't know anything about the raiding scene. Sorry but you really don't if you're going to assume most raiding teams engage in RMT or botting.

you know, people always say this, and then we get stuff like this magically popping up and then people say "lol, where were you. Everyone does this." And you poke a bit, and a lot are, enough to create a culture of this. I'm not saying 100% of raiders do this, but that I dislike raiders because enough do this over time that its a repeated issue in game after game. And it gets worse.

I mean, the ffxi example at least had some justification for themselves in that if you didn't bot you lost out on claims from the higher hnms more or less forever. That was grudging acceptance, and eventually that got fixed by more or less removing those kind of spawns into a forced pop system. WTF justification is for this? It's just a big screw you to the ideas of the game.

[Aana]

One of the reasons I can't stand raiders is due to this. They always talk so much crap about gitting gud and skill, and then they turn around, and do things like this. Its always the same in every game, the public face and the private face. And when they get confronted with it, they always try to justify it.

Look, in the past mercing/paying gil for clears was only tolerated because it was assumed you legitimately earned the gil via crafting, endgame playing, etc. Even then it was kind of eh, but games in the past had a huge time component that often meant you had to do a week's work of prerequisite grinding for a hard fight and 1/24 chance at a drop. In this game though all content is accessible with the least amount of busywork; you can jump in and access the fight right away, and the rewards are not strenuous or hard to get.

The fact though that people not only are making rl money on this, but they think zero is wrong with it, is worrisome and really denigrates the idea of the game and the raid community.

And I call bull on this. Where in the world do you get the misinformed view that 'all raiders' sell clears? You 'hate raiders' because 'all raiders' sell stuff. You are so horribly biased and misinformed I dont even know where to begin. You hugely exaggerate every aspect of this. If all raiders sold wins constantly, then there is also an ocean of non-raiders who are trying to buy wins to support this (supposedly) ubiquitous system. I have been raiding in this game since twintania constantly, without break, participating in and keeping in touch with a great many raiders for years. You are full of crap sir. You can take your misinformed stereotypes to the door.

[Squintina]

Personally I don't really care if people sell wins for money since they're not affecting the overall economy of the game (ex: botting) or affecting other people's ability to earn things (ex: pvp wintrading).

But it technically is against TOS so..if someone does end up banned over it, it was their own fault.

I don't know if SE will actually do anything more than just post a warning. Since they don't really accept pictures, the only way they could really investigate it is if they themselves use the contact information in PF to talk to these people on discord and validate that they are indeed RMT-ing. It would be a slow process since it wouldn't be automated, but they could do that...

[Penthea]

I'm not saying 100% of raiders do this

You pretty much did say that though and you called bull when I said 99% don't.

[Endeleon]

Personally I don't really care if people sell wins for money since they're not affecting the overall economy of the game (ex: botting) or affecting other people's ability to earn things (ex: pvp wintrading).

But it technically is against TOS so..if someone does end up banned over it, it was their own fault.

I don't know if SE will actually do anything more than just post a warning. Since they don't really accept pictures, the only way they could really investigate it is if they themselves use the contact information in PF to talk to these people on discord and validate that they are indeed RMT-ing. It would be a slow process since it wouldn't be automated, but they could do that...

Actually a large portion of the FC involved here actually have bots to fund their system, so yes, they do engage in botting and RMT that hurt the game. But they are top tier players, so it's ok, right??