selling wins

[Paladinleeds]

That's a terrible argument. That's like saying Murder is the same as Shoplifting. They are both breaking the law................

In her defence, they ARE both breaking the law in your example. ToS are ToS. Now, I agree, there's varying levels of violations (like you say, murder is worse than shoplifting), but in the most literal sense, they are both breaking the law.

Now, performance is also a pretty serious violation due to it being related to making profit off copyrighted content (which will get a swarm of lawyers after SE faster than anything, since SE indirectly profit off the performance because it's in their game). But something that just puts the UI on your keyboard via lighting is harmless for example, though still against ToS. Or someone using a parser to keep track of their numbers to try and improve. Now, RMT however is very destructive, I won't lie.

[KisaiTenshi]

It's unfortunate that they don't seem to care about this at all (Though not that surprising considering how half-hearted their efforts at curbing the botting issues are).

It should be painfully obvious that RMT is involved when you can't trade gil cross-world, plus they're trying to get you discuss it somewhere outside of the game.

Rule #1 with auction sites and dating sites, (because people like to avoid fees, also lets them get scammed) "Never communicate with someone outside the system, never send money to someone by (cash/stamps/western union/gift cards/etc)"

That's like the biggest red flag anyone with half a brain should notice. If you're directed to to do something outside the game, and they're not willing to communicate within the game, then it's a certainly a scam.

Not really. Breaking ToS is breaking it. Just because you are againts people selling content for gil, doesnt mean what you do with your bard instrument is ''legal'' in the game. Many people break the rules for playing copyrighted songs in the game. If you really want to be the guy who wants to talk about being flawless and not breaking any ToS, might as well bring that copyright music.


It is, because both are breaking the ToS. Just because you like doing it, doesnt mean you arent breaking the ToS. Its the same with mods. Many use them and it is againts the ToS. Just because you like it, doesnt you arent breaking the ToS. So yes it's exactly the same.

This is exactly right. All things under the ToS have equal weight. Internally SE may decide that people yelling F bombs in the middle of a crowded area in the game is somehow worse than 80 bots standing behind a wall of the GC building.

Admittedly, I really don't care what-so-ever about 'music cover' type of infringement, because nobody in their right mind would prefer to listen to a video game character playing a cover of a copyrighted song over buying the the song or listening to it on Spotify/Pandora/Apple Music. Like it requires a certain level PR pearl clutching to go after people playing these things in the game, yet they (JASRAC) do.

[Stormfur]

There is plenty of evidence in this on "other forums and tools", but I understand why it cannot be used as evidence since photos can be tampered with.

Video clips, on the other hand, are nearly impossible to edit without it not looking like it was tampered with. I wish they'd accept those because trust me...as someone with years of experience editing videos, it is 1) a royal pain to do so 2) easily discernible.

[TaranTatsuuchi]

So, I noticed this just showed up recently: https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...d5018ee8fc7b01

Between the reddit post about people selling UwU clears, JP bloggers bringing up the reddit post, and this post being made, I doubt it's a coincidence.

Of course, this doesn't actually mean anything is going to change, considering how they decided to be less transparent about the number of bans being issued for botting after people complained on a large scale, yet none of the regulars on my server have been touched still, and the number of bots has actually gone up significantly instead.

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...d5018ee8fc7b01 Dated June 18, 2018.

Well... That "such as advertisements within the game leading to external services" point seems to imply that these may actually be investigated...

[Penthea]

but isn't this just blatant RMT?

It is. I think one of the reasons why SE don't really crack down on this particular form of RMT is because it doesn't really impact the game itself very much.

Someone buying a boss kill with real cash doesn't give them the advantages buying gil would. It doesn't really affect server economy, it doesn't feed house flipping and it's not supported by botting (yes I am aware some high profile raid teams do use some shady things like botting to support themselves but my point is you don't need to do that to be in a position to sell boss kills).

That being said it doesn't mean the person who got paid won't buy gil with that money, but they could just as easily be paying their rent or buying a new graphics card with it. I think if those players wanted gil for boss kills, they would just ask for gil instead of real cash.

Furthermore buying a boss kill doesn't deprive someone else of a boss kill. There aren't a limited amount of attempts to kill a boss or a limited amount of times it can drop loot. Unlike housing, boss kills and their loot aren't a finite number.

When players talk about this issue they are against it because of their own values and/or are angry with SE being selectively against RMT, not because they have been personally negatively affected by it. So conversation is closer to criticism than raging salt with threat of unsubbing.

Don't get me wrong, I strongly disagree with any form of RMT and I do think SE should do something about it. But at the same time I can see why it's not appearing to be a priority for them. It frankly isn't causing enough problems or drama for them to care enough.

[Tiaque]

I’ll debunk this tangent right now. I’ve raided with a good portion of the world first team over the years and I can promise you first hand that they are not in this for the money. If they were, there are frankly far better options for players of their time and motivation. The progression raid scene is upset about the lack of a third Ultimate because it means we face another massive raid content lull akin to the end of HW. But that’s a topic for another thread.

Fixed that for ya

[Celef]

So I assume you’ll be just as up in arms when we get a thread about all those naughty TOS breaking Bards using perform to play content protected under copyright?

Well, yeah ^^"
Call me a paladin but breaking TOS is breaking TOS ^^"

[RiyahArp]

One of the reasons I can't stand raiders is due to this. They always talk so much crap about gitting gud and skill, and then they turn around, and do things like this. Its always the same in every game, the public face and the private face. And when they get confronted with it, they always try to justify it.

Look, in the past mercing/paying gil for clears was only tolerated because it was assumed you legitimately earned the gil via crafting, endgame playing, etc. Even then it was kind of eh, but games in the past had a huge time component that often meant you had to do a week's work of prerequisite grinding for a hard fight and 1/24 chance at a drop. In this game though all content is accessible with the least amount of busywork; you can jump in and access the fight right away, and the rewards are not strenuous or hard to get.

The fact though that people not only are making rl money on this, but they think zero is wrong with it, is worrisome and really denigrates the idea of the game and the raid community.

[Penthea]

One of the reasons I can't stand raiders is due to this. They always talk so much crap about gitting gud and skill, and then they turn around, and do things like this. Its always the same in every game, the public face and the private face. And when they get confronted with it, they always try to justify it.

99% of raiders do not engage in this behaviour at all. Don't paint all raiders in the same colour.

[RiyahArp]

99% of raiders do not engage in this behaviour at all. Don't paint all raiders in the same colour.

I call bull on this. enough do it or support it that the culture is somehow shifted to where people are actually seriously defending this practice. The change is what gets me; i expect world firsters to be corrupt as hell; the big HNM shells on FFXI all botted, I doubt its much different here. But that thread surprised me in just how many people thought it wasn't an issue whatsoever.