selling wins

[Alleo]

Breaking the rules are breaking the rules. Much as you break the law stealing a gum pack for 1 dollar vs someone who steals stuff worth 1000 dollars. Whats so hard to understand?

Yet if you steal one pack of gum you will probably get less of a punishment than breaking into a house, hurting people by doing that and stealing a big amount of items. And the same with the ToS. Playing songs with perform that are against the ToS is against the ToS but should never get the same kind of punishment as someone selling runs for real money which includes taking over another ones account.

I mean as far as I know people that used that one bug with the LB got different punishments too. Those that used it in raid content and more than once got perma banned while others that just tried it out after seeing that it exists got lesser punishments.

In the end every great raider that does not take part in selling stuff for real money should be loudly against this. Because this takes away from the fight that people wanted to be staying behind synch to let it always be a challenge. How is it still that way if people can just buy their way into it? How will people now know if the person wearing this cool weapon is someone that cleared it on their own or just bought their way too it?

[HyoMinPark]

In this light it really seems that the new top content is "too rough". People are actually paying a lot of money not to play it. How many of the clears are actually bought runs i wonder.

The only reason people buy clears tends to be because they aren’t skilled enough to participate in the content and they want the shinies from it. The people who foolishly spent 1,200 USD on an UCoB clear? Wanted the weapon and the title, and weren’t at the skill level to earn it properly. Very rarely do you get actual, skilled players buying clears for Savage or Ultimate; they’re skilled and they know it, and they can go clear it themselves without paying money out of pocket for it. So why buy?

That being said, the amount of clears that are bought are still low—not nearly as substantial as some in this thread are trying to make it out to be.

Maybe the solution is to have more mid-high level content that keeps people engaged.
I can't do some of the ultimate hard core stuff, work/family are first. So it's a case of a step below content that will keep me interested.

There’s already this type of content in the game: Extreme primals and Savage.

[Gizensha]

The only reason people buy clears tends to be because they aren’t skilled enough to participate in the content and they want the shinies from it. The people who foolishly spent 1,200 USD on an UCoB clear? Wanted the weapon and the title, and weren’t at the skill level to earn it properly. Very rarely do you get actual, skilled players buying clears for Savage or Ultimate; they’re skilled and they know it, and they can go clear it themselves without paying money out of pocket for it. So why buy?

That being said, the amount of clears that are bought are still low—not nearly as substantial as some in this thread are trying to make it out to be.

I'm not trying to say that the majority aren't real but the fact that these services are offered and the prices are that high tells that there is enough demand.

[HyoMinPark]

I'm not trying to say that the majority aren't real but the fact that these services are offered and the prices are that high tells that there is enough demand.

The prices for UCoB sells started at $1,200 USD, and not too long after that went down to $500. It’s my opinion that it dropped that quickly due to no one dropping a grand on it. When there is a high demand for something, prices are lower because you make no revenue. High prices are a reflection of very little demand, and the suppliers attempting to get the most of out their sale.

That being said, the clear rate for UCoB was less that 1%, and I’d wager to say that around that same percentage were the amount of players that actually bought their clears for the price of what amounts to fairly decent/budget custom-built PC.

[Remyogic]

Breaking the rules are breaking the rules. Much as you break the law stealing a gum pack for 1 dollar vs someone who steals stuff worth 1000 dollars. Whats so hard to understand?

Stealing gum pack: Likely the store owner will shake his head at you and tell you to never come back. IF he prosecutes you:

Misdemeanor in the Third Degree Theft: A misdemeanor in the third degree carries a maximum sentence of one year of incarceration and a fine of no more than $2,500.

Stealing $1,000 in value: Pretty assured you are getting arrested.

Misdemeanor in the First Degree Theft: A misdemeanor in the first degree can result in a sentence of incarceration of five years, and a fine of no more than $10,000.

1 Year vs. 5 Years; $2,500 vs $10,000. I'd say that's a significant difference in punishment.

ALSO I used Shoplifting vs Murder, so to be accurate:

Let's add in Life in prison and/or Lawful Termination of Life.

"Whats so hard to understand?"


On Topic, I think the practice detailed in OP is disgusting and should be as severely punished as SE is able to. My point in my original post, however, is let's not pretend that all ToS violations are the same. There are varying degrees of severity that constitute varying degrees of action and/or punishment.

[Aana]

Wait, is that how they sell wins?
They literally get onto your account?
Who in their right mind...

I always thought they just carry you in their with them.

EZ content (say, most EX primals), the buyer shows up and they tell him to jump off the platform so they dont screw anything up and procede to 7man it. Heck, our ninja DCed last week when we pulled chadernook and we got it to 1% and we are by no means elite class raiders and nearly 7manned it on the fly with an additional death. Most stuff in this game can be 7 manned unless there is a specific mechanic that cannot be survived without all 8. In those cases or in content as hard as ultimate the only option is to give them your account info, they log in, play you, you pay them.

Yes, to buy ultimate or similar difficulty wins you have to give up your account security and pay a boatload of money (gil or IRL). I cant fathom why anyone would do that. The money i can understand as money's value is completely relative to how much you actually have, but risking your account? No thx.

[akaneakki]

Stealing gum pack:nt.

Stealing is stealing, going againts ToS is going againts ToS. I bet my ass that many like yourself have tons of friends who are againts the ToS playing copyrighted songs, but since its something you all enjoy, well its not as ''bad''. Yeah sure, its not as bad, but they still breaking the ToS. The fact many here speak loudly about being perfect about not breaking any game law, yet people say its ifne as long its not super bad. Square enix was very strict on this and even removed videos off youtube. Using emotes? Go ahead, you spam it, you are againts ToS. I even had people getting 10 days ban for spamming emotes. I fully agree selling content for real money is a whole different thing, but again peopel been banned for days for doing emote spam, playing music thats copyrighted.

Its like people using mods, tons of people love to use it, but many dont get its againts ToS. Just because you enjoy using it or have others enjoy using it, doesnt mean its a freepass, just get that right.

[whiskeybravo]

The ToS simply gives SE leverage in certain situations, that's all. CYA. It's the same situation your local police are faced with: "enforce all laws". But the reality is police officers can't possibly "enforce all laws" 100% of the time, they have to pick and choose what's worth their time enforcing. They aren't going to pull you over for not using a blinker unless it's an extremely slow day or maybe they are just having a bad day, but they still have the leverage to charge you with it if they want. Communities are the same way. "Most" people are probably not going to call the cops on their neighbor if they are smoking a joint on their back porch even if it's illegal in the state they live. EVEN IF THEY DID, and I've heard this directly from a local police officer where rec use is not legal, they don't care if someone is smoking a joint on their back porch or in their house - it's not doing direct harm to anyone else.

So yea, you can boil everything down to the binary view that "breaking the law (ToS) is breaking the law (ToS)" but at the end of the day it's people holding other people accountable and we as a community decide which acts are obviously egregious and should be punished, to which acts we let pass because there's little actual harm involved.

[Soupa]

Just report the offenders and be done with it, this shouldn't even be up for debate. RMT is a banable offense. Also not recognizing the achievements of those who partake in RMT activities who for whatever reason aren't being punished is another way of going about it.