selling wins

[Sebazy]

Now I wonder if those that sell them and are in the world race are just doing it to get money instead of doing it for the challenge?

I’ll debunk this tangent right now. I’ve raided with a good portion of the world first team over the years and I can promise you first hand that they are not in this for the money. If they were, there are frankly far better options for players of their talent and motivation. The progression raid scene is upset about the lack of a third Ultimate because it means we face another massive raid content lull akin to the end of HW. But that’s a topic for another thread.

The real issue is not selling run for Gils, but selling runs for real money, wich is against the TOS

So I assume you’ll be just as up in arms when we get a thread about all those naughty TOS breaking Bards using perform to play content protected under copyright?

There’s no denying that the rules are there in black and white, but let’s not lose sight of the simple fact that they are interpreted in many different shades of grey by all levels of the playerbase. Anywhere from the aforementioned performing bard, through those using mods for their tumblr screenshots and onwards to those using various parsers, screencapture and other such software hooking into the client in some manner. Even those using colourful language amongst their trusted friends. Alas, it’s not for us to decide where the line is between bending and abusing the rules.

[Endeleon]

So I assume you’ll be just as up in arms when we get a thread about all those naughty TOS breaking Bards using perform to play content protected under copyright?

There’s no denying that the rules are there in black and white, but let’s not lose sight of the simple fact that they are interpreted in many different shades of grey by all levels of the playerbase. Anywhere from the aforementioned performing bard, through those using mods for their tumblr screenshots and onwards to those using various parsers, screencapture and other such software hooking into the client in some manner. Even those using colourful language amongst their trusted friends. Alas, it’s not for us to decide where the line is between bending and abusing the rules.

You sound pretty biased. Likening this issue with bards playing copyright music is such a strawman argument, you are really showing your hand.

[akaneakki]

You sound pretty biased. Likening this issue with bards playing copyright music is such a strawman argument, you are really showing your hand.

Not really. Breaking ToS is breaking it. Just because you are againts people selling content for gil, doesnt mean what you do with your bard instrument is ''legal'' in the game. Many people break the rules for playing copyrighted songs in the game. If you really want to be the guy who wants to talk about being flawless and not breaking any ToS, might as well bring that copyright music.

Engaging in RMT activity for $1200 USD is not the same as a young teenage boy playing a cover of Carly Rae Jepsen, "Call Me Maybe."

It is, because both are breaking the ToS. Just because you like doing it, doesnt mean you arent breaking the ToS. Its the same with mods. Many use them and it is againts the ToS. Just because you like it, doesnt you arent breaking the ToS. So yes it's exactly the same.

[Remyogic]

It is, because both are breaking the ToS. Just because you like doing it, doesnt mean you arent breaking the ToS. Its the same with mods. Many use them and it is againts the ToS. Just because you like it, doesnt you arent breaking the ToS. So yes it's exactly the same.

That's a terrible argument. That's like saying Murder is the same as Shoplifting. They are both breaking the law................

While, both RMT and Copyrighted Performance are both against ToS and I agree that, if someone is going to play the ToS card, people should be willing to discuss what is a more impactful violation.

Calling them "exactly the same" is willful ignorance.

[Paladinleeds]

That's a terrible argument. That's like saying Murder is the same as Shoplifting. They are both breaking the law................

In her defence, they ARE both breaking the law in your example. ToS are ToS. Now, I agree, there's varying levels of violations (like you say, murder is worse than shoplifting), but in the most literal sense, they are both breaking the law.

Now, performance is also a pretty serious violation due to it being related to making profit off copyrighted content (which will get a swarm of lawyers after SE faster than anything, since SE indirectly profit off the performance because it's in their game). But something that just puts the UI on your keyboard via lighting is harmless for example, though still against ToS. Or someone using a parser to keep track of their numbers to try and improve. Now, RMT however is very destructive, I won't lie.

[akaneakki]

Calling them "exactly the same" is willful ignorance.

Breaking the rules are breaking the rules. Much as you break the law stealing a gum pack for 1 dollar vs someone who steals stuff worth 1000 dollars. Whats so hard to understand?

[Alleo]

Breaking the rules are breaking the rules. Much as you break the law stealing a gum pack for 1 dollar vs someone who steals stuff worth 1000 dollars. Whats so hard to understand?

Yet if you steal one pack of gum you will probably get less of a punishment than breaking into a house, hurting people by doing that and stealing a big amount of items. And the same with the ToS. Playing songs with perform that are against the ToS is against the ToS but should never get the same kind of punishment as someone selling runs for real money which includes taking over another ones account.

I mean as far as I know people that used that one bug with the LB got different punishments too. Those that used it in raid content and more than once got perma banned while others that just tried it out after seeing that it exists got lesser punishments.

In the end every great raider that does not take part in selling stuff for real money should be loudly against this. Because this takes away from the fight that people wanted to be staying behind synch to let it always be a challenge. How is it still that way if people can just buy their way into it? How will people now know if the person wearing this cool weapon is someone that cleared it on their own or just bought their way too it?

[Remyogic]

Breaking the rules are breaking the rules. Much as you break the law stealing a gum pack for 1 dollar vs someone who steals stuff worth 1000 dollars. Whats so hard to understand?

Stealing gum pack: Likely the store owner will shake his head at you and tell you to never come back. IF he prosecutes you:

Misdemeanor in the Third Degree Theft: A misdemeanor in the third degree carries a maximum sentence of one year of incarceration and a fine of no more than $2,500.

Stealing $1,000 in value: Pretty assured you are getting arrested.

Misdemeanor in the First Degree Theft: A misdemeanor in the first degree can result in a sentence of incarceration of five years, and a fine of no more than $10,000.

1 Year vs. 5 Years; $2,500 vs $10,000. I'd say that's a significant difference in punishment.

ALSO I used Shoplifting vs Murder, so to be accurate:

Let's add in Life in prison and/or Lawful Termination of Life.

"Whats so hard to understand?"


On Topic, I think the practice detailed in OP is disgusting and should be as severely punished as SE is able to. My point in my original post, however, is let's not pretend that all ToS violations are the same. There are varying degrees of severity that constitute varying degrees of action and/or punishment.

[akaneakki]

Stealing gum pack:nt.

Stealing is stealing, going againts ToS is going againts ToS. I bet my ass that many like yourself have tons of friends who are againts the ToS playing copyrighted songs, but since its something you all enjoy, well its not as ''bad''. Yeah sure, its not as bad, but they still breaking the ToS. The fact many here speak loudly about being perfect about not breaking any game law, yet people say its ifne as long its not super bad. Square enix was very strict on this and even removed videos off youtube. Using emotes? Go ahead, you spam it, you are againts ToS. I even had people getting 10 days ban for spamming emotes. I fully agree selling content for real money is a whole different thing, but again peopel been banned for days for doing emote spam, playing music thats copyrighted.

Its like people using mods, tons of people love to use it, but many dont get its againts ToS. Just because you enjoy using it or have others enjoy using it, doesnt mean its a freepass, just get that right.

[Tiaque]

I’ll debunk this tangent right now. I’ve raided with a good portion of the world first team over the years and I can promise you first hand that they are not in this for the money. If they were, there are frankly far better options for players of their time and motivation. The progression raid scene is upset about the lack of a third Ultimate because it means we face another massive raid content lull akin to the end of HW. But that’s a topic for another thread.

Fixed that for ya