So about Summoner...

[Zerathor]

snip.

BLM mobility in these fights really isn't that bad for people who are used to playing blm. It's harder to do, but far from being the determining factor to not blm these fights. Especially with recent changes to AM speed and it's cool down.

As for the other dude, idk what their issue is. Somewhere along the line they start making personal attacks, and it's fun to stab back when they have zero ground to stand on. I know I shouldn't, but eh.

[Dualgunner]

10% vuln up, 1/6 uptime...about 16% uptime give or take? So about 1.6% rDPS if my math's not off? https://xivrdps.herokuapp.com/encoun...vfhHVnNJdqg/18
42,184.4 * .016 = 674.9 which is close to that Nin's trick damage (657).

To have Trick count for >900 dps, total group dps needs to be about 56,500. Which is frankly ridiculous. Where'd you get numbers like that from?

[Neela]

As for the other dude, idk what their issue is. Somewhere along the line they start making personal attacks, and it's fun to stab back when they have zero ground to stand on. I know I shouldn't, but eh.

take a closer look who got personal first pal - else you are right its fun to stab back if you have zero ground to stand on. ^^

[Zerathor]

take a closer look who got personal first pal - else you are right its fun to stab back if you have zero ground to stand on. ^^

What ever you say green queen. ;^)

[Megguido]

10% vuln up, 1/6 uptime...about 16% uptime give or take?
So about 1.6% rDPS if my math's not off? https://xivrdps.herokuapp.com/encoun...vfhHVnNJdqg/18
42,184.4 * .016 = 674.9 which is close to that Nin's trick damage (657).

To have Trick count for >900 dps, total group dps needs to be about 56,500. Which is frankly ridiculous. Where'd you get numbers like that from?

Your maths are off because you are not considering a very important detail: burst. It's not because you have 16% uptime on a 10% damage up buff that you will deal 1.6% more damage overall. I'll take WAR as an example. Their IR burst window lasts 10s every 90s, so it has 11% uptime. Though IR windows accounts for 30 to 40% of a WAR's total DPS which is far from the 11% uptime.

A competent team will synchronize their raid buffs so they can maximize their damage during those.

Anyway, you can find a NIN bringing more than 900 rDPS here for example. Lots of other teams doing speedkills reach similar amounts.

EDIT: wrong link, it's fixed now.

[Dualgunner]

Fflogs tells me nothing of Trick Attacks addition to raid specifically unless you meant to link a Herokuapp.

https://xivrdps.herokuapp.com/encoun...Yj8w4DGdfab/27

Current fastest GK kill has NIN at 861, which is almost 900, so its within the ballpark at least.

[Zerathor]

Your maths are off because you are not considering a very important detail: burst. It's not because you have 16% uptime on a 10% damage up buff that you will deal 1.6% more damage overall. I'll take WAR as an example. Their IR burst window lasts 10s every 90s, so it has 11% uptime. Though IR windows accounts for 30 to 40% of a WAR's total DPS which is far from the 11% uptime.

A competent team will synchronize their raid buffs so they can maximize their damage during those.

Anyway, you can find a NIN bringing more than 900 rDPS here for example. Lots of other teams doing speedkills reach similar amounts.

I think blackcat's app accounts for that
https://xivrdps.herokuapp.com/encoun...dCkybcY8NKx/19
That is pretty disgusting though.

Edit: nvm, you changed link

[Dualgunner]

Fair point on burst, I'll cede there.

[Neela]

What ever you say green queen. ;^)

well your problem in a nutshell:

Do you think nerfing summoner would make BLM more valuable in UwU?

honestly i just want blm to get a buff to the point its a viable option (in ult). be that from a noticeable dps gain over smn, or letting them have some kind of unique group utility again.

Raise (or utility in general) isn't the biggest reason BLM is poor for progression; it's because of how intimately one needs to know the fight so they know where to stand to maximize their dps. A BLM who doesn't know where or how to stand will always do less dps than a SMN, and in a lot of cases even RDM.

you just don't get the point that complaining about smn won't solve blm endgame situation - no matter how hard u try or how personal u get. you can talk about flogs statistics and compare them to death for the next two weeks and it won't change anything - blm won't become a beloved prog cls in its design no matter how many pot buffs it will get - so just get over it.

[Megguido]

@Zerathor, Dualgunner I editted the link, failed miserably my copy/pasting.

Well timed raid buffs can be very powerful, but we're talking about the best players out there. I'm pretty sure that in a much less coordinated team (PU group, casual / midcore static ?), a BLM can bring as much damage as a NIN because lots of people don't actually know how to use raid buffs efficiently.

If you boost BLM's damage to be competitive with DRG, BRD or NIN raid+personnal DPS at the highest levels of play, it would be quite OP in a less optimized environment, because you wouldn't need your team to coordinate that much to deal stupidly high amounts of damage. That 900 rDPS trick attack seems OP because the whole team is maximizing their rotation around it. Take a random pick-up group, and TA will be a plain 1.6% rDPS boost.

EDIT (cause too slow):

you just don't get the point that complaining about smn won't solve blm endgame situation - no matter how hard u try or how personal u get. you can talk about flogs statistics and compare them to death for the next two weeks and it won't change anything

People complaining that SMN > BLM can actually complain that SMN, BRD, NIN, MCH, DRG, MNK > BLM