So about Summoner...

[Maero]

Smn has never been in a bad spot for overly long because the community complained and the results was they overtuned it. Come into SB and look smn is again OP.
They have always gone back in forth between blm and smn with smn eventually always coming out on top.

If players are honestly fine that smn does more damage (and this is damage alone not counting the utility they bring) then jobs that all they bring is damage are clearly missing the point.
Nerfing is not the solution but at this point there is absolutely no excuse as to why Red Mage has not seen any changes/buffs, we are far enough into the expansion.
May as well use the line that was used for Sam, delete Red Mage if they do not care to change it.
RM is absolutely in last place for damage, possibly higher then Machinist in some cases? Probably not but just guessing

[Dualgunner]

I can't edit on mobile but yeah I saw ^_^ I ceded the argument there but yeah, people who maximize this game are terrifying lol

I wouldn't say anything should be balanced like drg, even drg. You can see they get ridiculous buffs to rDPS passively just by party comp (likewise 5% of a jobs flat damage shouldn't be locked behind another job).

[Neela]

@Zerathor, Dualgunner I editted the link, failed miserably my copy/pasting.

Well timed raid buffs can be very powerful, but we're talking about the best players out there. I'm pretty sure that in a much less coordinated team (PU group, casual / midcore static ?), a BLM can bring as much damage as a NIN because lots of people don't actually know how to use raid buffs efficiently.

If you boost BLM's damage to be competitive with DRG, BRD or NIN raid+personnal DPS at the highest levels of play, it would be quite OP in a less optimized environment, because you wouldn't need your team to coordinate that much to deal stupidly high amounts of damage.

People complaining that SMN > BLM can actually complain that SMN, BRD, NIN, MCH, DRG, MNK > BLM

yeah and it took 2 major expansion and a complete redesign of smns-skillstructure to make him viable for raids at all – how can blm think minor pot buffs would change their problem? I just can't understand this hate and mimimi for no given reason... q.q

[Maero]

Fflogs tells me nothing of Trick Attacks addition to raid specifically unless you meant to link a Herokuapp.

https://xivrdps.herokuapp.com/encoun...Yj8w4DGdfab/27

Current fastest GK kill has NIN at 861, which is almost 900, so its within the ballpark at least.

Ninja damage is also not the highest but TA i believe i read somewhere brings around 400 or so rDps

[Dualgunner]

Neela summoner has always been viable. This is just the first time in a few years a caster has made it back onto the meta. Or at least challenged for it.

[Megguido]

Ninja damage is also not the highest but TA i believe i read somewhere brings around 400 or so rDps

NIN's Trick Attack depends on your team. You can be the best ninja in the world, if you're in a team of random people that don't know how to play around raid buffs, you Trick Attack won't bring much DPS to the team.

[Neela]

Neela summoner has always been viable. This is just the first time in a few years a caster has made it back onto the meta. Or at least challenged for it.

you know what I meant >__>

[Dualgunner]

you know what I meant >__>

Just doing my best to keep terminology clear.

[Neela]

Just doing my best to keep terminology clear.

thats kinda nice tho ;3

[Dualgunner]

To sort of shift gears a bit and bring Llugen's talking points up, I think at some point we need to let go of the idea of "selfish dps". This game rewards the utility dps with stacking buffs that give enormous output, and while it is nice to have a dps that can counter bad team play...ideally in high play (where things should be balanced) you won't have a bad team so that tool becomes irrelevant.

SAM and BLM need to offer something to the party beyond dps.