5.0 Job change wishlist

[IttyBitty]

Do you really want a gauge that you don't get to use Assize, Asylum, Tetra and Divine Benison at all unless you use cure? Because that's what we're going to get if you ask them to make it into a limit break button.

This is ridiculous conjecture and you know it.

[KisaiTenshi]

No no no, you said that it was fine, then complained people wanted it for DPS, got information on Bard's gauge wrong, still haven't explained why you want to have 3 stacks at all times on a WHM, and commented that a TANK gets a boost while DPSing in Sword Oath, which kinda goes against your comments about "Playing jobs a certain way"

Honestly, if you had left it at the first part of your first post in regards to Lilies, and skipped to your suggestions, most of this conversation probably either wouldn't have happened, or you would have a leg to stand on in regards to saying others are picking the fights.

If you don't get it, that's fine. I'm just pointing out that SE clearly wants healing to be done a certain way, and asking for changes will make them push it further, because they will never understand the NA raid meta. And quite frankly I don't want them to. It's fine just where it is.

... did you conveniently ignore Bokchoy's "Solution" section? One click and he no longer had any issues. Further down, he even cites this only became an issue recently. You proudly claimed ACT was widely inaccurate yet this link demonstrates precisely the opposite, albeit once a solution to the problem caused by an update was found. I'll you've shown is ACT can mess up but that is true of virtually every program.

And I told you before that this is a feature that was only introduced 2 months ago. How many script kiddies are reading reddit hmm? How many kiddies were using it for the previous 3 years? I know far more about how that parser works than I'm willing to let on, and not willing to test SE's ToS patience with. Players talking about their DPS from that tool are simply inaccurate if not entirely wrong, and using against other players is doubly wrong, which is why it's dangerous in the hands of kiddies that shouldn't have it in the first place.

[Karen_Cerfrumos]

Ah yes, that wonderful squadron AI that banes in single target and doesn't even have full kits players do.
That's totally how the devs see their game needs to be played.

[MoroMurasaki]

And that is why I initially said there was nothing wrong with it. Do you really want a gauge that you don't get to use Assize, Asylum, Tetra and Divine Benison at all unless you use cure? Because that's what we're going to get if you ask them to make it into a limit break button.

Would you elabotate? I don't understand what you mean by not getting to use those skills or "make it into a limit break button".

The only skill that's ever been locked behind a lily was DB and SE fixed that up when people en masse complained they needed a lily which they almost never had.

A friend of mine healed Swallow's Compass the other day. I was on RDM. He never got a lily, not one. Tank was doing normal double pulls but stayed in Shield Oath. We all performed mechanics and killed things and never needed a cure/cure II. That's why the lily gague is useless to people - it literally saw no use. If you can show me another job performing well with their gague turned off I would be surprised.

[IttyBitty]

SE clearly wants healing to be done a certain way

Content design says otherwise and hasn't been pushed much towards more heal-centric encounters. In fact, healing requirements have generally become lower over time as available healing power has increased.
Healer class design also says otherwise, and has actually been pushed towards a more DPS-centric combat system.

But sure, they totally intend you to play this magical One True Way! The great prophet Yoshi-P said so and AI CNJs play that way, so it must be true!

Either the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing, or things are not as cut and dry as they first appear.

[Ilenya]

If you don't get it, that's fine. I'm just pointing out that SE clearly wants healing to be done a certain way, and asking for changes will make them push it further, because they will never understand the NA raid meta. And quite frankly I don't want them to. It's fine just where it is.

I-I have to ask, is the Raid meta for Japan that different that your comment makes sense? There is no way on earth they aren't aware of what people are doing. Heck, I'm one of the people who find that if someone isn't comfortable DPSing as a healer they shouldn't have to, and even I realize that healer DPS is a thing and, unless raid damage gets a lot more serious, will always be a thing.

Still waiting on the keeping 3 lilies part, too. Don't say "If you don't understand, it's fine" because I am *asking* you to clarify on that part.

[KisaiTenshi]

Would you elabotate? I don't understand what you mean by not getting to use those skills or "make it into a limit break button".

The only skill that's ever been locked behind a lily was DB and SE fixed that up when people en masse complained they needed a lily which they almost never had.

A friend of mine healed Swallow's Compass the other day. I was on RDM. He never got a lily, not one. Tank was doing normal double pulls but stayed in Shield Oath. We all performed mechanics and killed things and never needed a cure/cure II. That's why the lily gague is useless to people - it literally saw no use. If you can show me another job performing well with their gague turned off I would be surprised.

When DB was locked behind the Lily system, that made DB unusable, because you are not going to save a lily "just to use DB". When they got rid of needing Cleric Stance, I was estatic because that mechanic was utterly trash and made users make more mistakes because of the stupid meta. When they brought this in, that was basically "well I'm never going to end up using it because Assize and Asylum is far more useful, and the only way to save a lily would be by curing the a target before applying DB otherwise. As I've said, careful what you ask for. I'll take "cooldown reduction" over "locked down". WHM has RNG proc's because otherwise it would be too powerful and would require the entire healing kit potency to be cut in half.

I-I have to ask, is the Raid meta for Japan that different that your comment makes sense? There is no way on earth they aren't aware of what people are doing. Heck, I'm one of the people who find that if someone isn't comfortable DPSing as a healer they shouldn't have to, and even I realize that healer DPS is a thing and, unless raid damage gets a lot more serious, will always be a thing.

Still waiting on the keeping 3 lilies part, too. Don't say "If you don't understand, it's fine" because I am *asking* you to clarify on that part.

I don't know what the Japanese raid meta is, but seeing as they have a higher clear rate, something is less of an obstacle over there, than it is here. If you're healing like the devs/Yoshi-P/SE intended, then unless the content is so easy as to not requiring healing at all, there is no reason to not be able to have 3 lilies up all the time. If you don't want to play it that way, then you aren't any worse off.

Start asking for changes to the lilies, and they will either lock things behind the lilies or they will gut the potency of other things. Nobody wants that.

Remember from 4.05:

Plenary Indulgence
Party members will no longer be granted a Confession when HP is restored via Cure and Cure II. They will instead be granted a Confession when HP is restored via Medica, Medica II, or Cure III.

The chance of granting party members a Confession has been increased from 20% to 100%.

The duration of the Confession has been reduced from 30 to 10 seconds.

Healing potency based on the number of stacks of Confession has been reduced from 400 for one stack, 500 for two stacks, and 600 for three stacks to 150 for one stack, 300 for two stacks, and 450 for three stacks.

Recast time increased from 15 to 60 seconds.

Confession stacks will now also be granted to the player casting Medica, Medica II, or Cure III.

Secret of the Lily

Chance healing a party member via Cure will add a Lily to the Healing Gauge increased from 50% to 100%.

So we lost most of the usability of the Confession stacks, to a point where it's basically unable to be used more than once in any fight, and the potency got nerfed. Did I like the RNG mechanic before? No. But it's not any more useful now, it's like throwing half a cure unless the party has taken so much damage that you can justify casting medica/medica ii/cure iii 3 consecutive times. Assize has the same healing potency as Medica, but it does not grant a confession stack or lily. The lilies don't actually do anything in the first place that justifies fishing for the lily, which is why changing that does nothing in the end. All the lilies do is change the recast time, it doesn't enable Asylum or Assize. And if you are not always using Asylum and Assize you don't end up taking advantage of Secret of the Lily II. Hence the "20% to have 5 second reduction" on the cast time does help, but it's not practical, even if you are using cure as the main cure. I hear that crit noise roughly once per fight. So RNG on top of RNG is just not useful.

How I'd change things, is have oCD reduction tied directly to having the lilies up. So they're always counting down when you've used them and the time reduction is directly a consequence of using Cure and Cure II. Also I'd make any crit heal 100% reduce it by 5 seconds. The Ryumyaku gear(i360) has crit on it, the Dai-Ryumyaku gear (i370) does not, rather it has Determination. Because even though I do get those crits, it's more likely that a player is not going to intentionally meld crit to gear just to fish for this either.

But anyway, where we are right now is not a problem, and I don't want SE trying to fix it by nerfing something else, or locking something else behind the lilies. If anything, evidence suggests that the only other practical thing to tie to the lilies is the actual spell speed, seeing as AST's DPS skills cast time are now lower than their healing spells, where as WHM's healing spells have lower cast times than their DPS spells, yet the potency is lower for AST. Except Aspected Helios cast time which is lower than Medica II.

[Vaer]

I-I have to ask, is the Raid meta for Japan that different that your comment makes sense? There is no way on earth they aren't aware of what people are doing. Heck, I'm one of the people who find that if someone isn't comfortable DPSing as a healer they shouldn't have to, and even I realize that healer DPS is a thing and, unless raid damage gets a lot more serious, will always be a thing.

Doubt it. They upload logs too and the distribution of their skill usage is the same - the smallest amount of heals you can get away with without dying and the rest DPS spells. Some of their top logs rely on mostly fairy heals, regens and ogcds just like ours.

[SkyEdge1]

Woah, initially I made this thread simply to come up with fun ideas for new job skills and mechanics. It was not about what playstyle is the correct playstyle for any given job. It was a wishlist specifically just so you could come up with wild and fun ideas to fulfill your job fantasy. So let's drop the hijack here and now and simply agree that we disagree on certain points.

Also if PLD doesn't get that sweet X-blade move that Gauis uses then there is no light left in this world!!!

[Nariel]

Well, in that case I want my flamming arrow back !








Please.