Stop spamming Medica I & II/diurnal Aspected Helios

[MaloraYuki]

See that's where I am at a lost because you say that like I dont compensate when I already claimed before that in some situations (if needed) ill nuke over raising "the baddies" if I think the mp is wasted on a raise & also Playing like you expecting others to fail isn't bad, if I can save them because I did overdo my heals then I am all for it.Besides I already said that throught a single instance if someone ask me nicely I will get into nocturnl. I still believe every word I typed in this thread tho

And you’re still wrong. As to your reply earlier to me about the regen will always tick. It doesn’t do anything if people are topped off it’s a waste. I thought you were done arguing in this thread super ego? Guess not. I think you should take everyone’s advice and roll with it maybe you’d improve.

[Ruf]

And you’re still wrong. As to your reply earlier to me about the regen will always tick. It doesn’t do anything if people are topped off it’s a waste. I thought you were done arguing in this thread super ego? Guess not. I think you should take everyone’s advice and roll with it maybe you’d improve.

Stop calling me super ego, what you say mean nothing to me because I know my worth & as for what Mozzy told me about taking others in consideration,I will but not consider you with the way you talk to me. A tic doesn't disappear while someone is topped & if my mp are fine they are fine, if someone hp drop tho, HOT prevention on it will patch it quick if they dodge. Malora you trying to talk about how I am change nothing & so if you cant stand how I express myself, sorry I cant help you.

P.s: I think you are wrong, yet I do not tell you.

[KDSilver]

At this point, the only thing I could respond to what I read is a meme.
There's no point arguing anymore.

[KaivaC]

P.s: I think you are wrong, yet I do not tell you.

You literally just contradicted yourself here.

[HyoMinPark]

You know who? this isn't very subtle & nice + I see you & hyo are on cactuar(same server),,, glad I'm not a server swapper.

That makes two of us. Very nice ad hominem, by the way.

MOZZYSTAR and I may be on the same server, but that's not the reason I am telling you that you are wrong. I'm telling you that you're wrong because you are. I have far more experience on AST than you do.

But continue to play AST incorrectly. I could not care less. You choose not to listen, and there is nothing I can do about that.

A tic doesn't disappear while someone is topped & if my mp are fine they are fine,

It doesn't disappear, but it's worthless. Someone who doesn't take damage in the 30 seconds your HoTs are ticking on them doesn't need healing.

Say you have a DPS with 41,000 HP. They take zero damage when you cast Diurnal Aspected Helios and for the entire duration of the Regen applied. Each tick it gives you (we'll say each tick is 3,500 HP healed to give a value) is wasted. HoT ticks occur every 3 seconds, so that is 10 ticks wasted; 10 ticks that did 0 HEALING; 10 ticks that OVERHEALED for a 100% overheal value. Not to mention the burst heal from Aspected Helios' initial hit was also wasted because it healed 0 HP.

People at 100% don't need to be healed. In other words, your HoTs are worthless on them, and a waste of MP, a waste of a cast. There is no way around that or around them not being a waste.


Compare these two scenarios:

Say your party takes about 12,000 damage from a raid wide AOE. You use Diurnal Aspected Helios, and the initial burst heal hits for 10,000, with the regens ticking for 3,500 on everage. The majority of the ticks will be overheals, and it would have been more prudent to just heal with regular Helios in this instant, or used Collective Unconscious' HoT it gives, as it's a shorter duration and less Regen ticks will be overheals.

Now say that your party takes about 25,000 damage from a raid wide AOE. You use Diurnal Aspected Helios, and the initial burst heal hits for 10,000, with the regens ticking for 3,500 on average. A few of the ticks will be overheals, but the vast majority will not be. THIS is proper use of your HoTs.

if someone hp drop tho, HOT prevention on it will patch it quick if they dodge.

If someone dodges an avoidable attack, they won't be taking damage, their HP won't be dropping, and therefore they don't need to be healed.

P.s: I think you are wrong, yet I do not tell you.

You literally just did.

[Maeka]

So much back and forth on this..


Outside of egregious cases where a healer is doing absolutely zero DPS and is overhealing like crazy, and outside of Savage content where you need the best MP conservation, and you need every spell to count, I have to ask this:

Is this worth arguing over?

Seriously.

If the boss dies in a reasonable time-frame, and in an 8-man group, the difference between a healer who DPS's none, DPS's a little, or DPS's as much as possible, the difference in the kill speed of the boss is going to be negligible at best. With 8 people there, 6 of whom are actual DPS, the healer is going to contribute what, maybe 6%? 8%? not even? at their best, of the group's total DPS?

If the boss is easy and you have virtually no chance of losing, then it matters even less because the DPS will have that thing burned down in pretty swift time. If the boss is mildly difficult, or new that people still screw up on the mechanics, than a little overheal certainly isn't bad.

Someone earlier in the thread said "You shouldn't assume people will fail". But yet NOT assuming people will fail means that if someone DOES fail, then they are laying on the ground dead. "It's not my place to care about them" .... okay, uh, if a DPS dies... do you think your half-DPS is more important than their devoted DPS? Do you think you will kill the boss faster if a DPS is laying on the ground dead? Are your precious Ruins and Stone IVs worth more than 10+ GCDs of an actual DPS, even one that might be performing slightly subpar?

Now obviously if a DPS is so terrible that he's doing less than the tank is probably better off laying on the ground dead, but most DPS aren't that terrible.

At the end of the day, as long as the boss dies, the boss dies. As long as a healer isn't running their MP dry on overhealing to the point they are in danger of running out in a real emergency, it really isn't THAT big of a deal.

Wow, the boss takes 10 seconds later to kill, woooo.

That's something to get into a tit-for-tat on the forums over, innit?

EDIT: And then there's the "you shouldn't do that because you'll never get better as a healer because you'll suck in Savage Raids" ...... not everybody has the intention of going to Savage Raids. I certainly don't. I know I'm not cut out for that. So no worries, you won't see me in your savage raiding. I just don't have the time and resources to devote to that. But yet I can heal well enough for anything you'd find on the regular DF. Easily so. I might struggle with the first run of a new trial or something, but I will learn it (like Castrum Fluminis... I sucked on my first attempt... and by the end of the 2nd when I actually got a clear, I was dodging 90% of everything quite comfortably and still getting the heals out for the most part).

Not every player is interested in Savage Raiding, and not every player needs to be on that skill level, and it is entirely unreasonable and infeasible to expect such.

[MaloraYuki]

Stop calling me super ego, what you say mean nothing to me because I know my worth & as for what Mozzy told me about taking others in consideration,I will but not consider you with the way you talk to me. A tic doesn't disappear while someone is topped & if my mp are fine they are fine, if someone hp drop tho, HOT prevention on it will patch it quick if they dodge. Malora you trying to talk about how I am change nothing & so if you cant stand how I express myself, sorry I cant help you.

P.s: I think you are wrong, yet I do not tell you.

Then stop arguing about it super ego? If I’m not changing your mind, really don’t care to change your mind by this point I know you are bad sooo I’m just enjoying the fun of making you mad.

Ps. You say the way I talk to you, have you looked at how you talk to others? You deserve it super ego. Treat others better and they will treat you better. Until then i’ll Have fun making fun of you.

[HyoMinPark]

So much back and forth on this..

I mean, you don't have to read the thread. Just saying.

With 8 people there, 6 of whom are actual DPS, the healer is going to contribute what, maybe 6%? 8%? not even? at their best, of the group's total DPS?

8-man groups are 2 tanks, 2 healers, 4 DPS, save for 24-mans which are 1 tank, 2 healers, and 5 DPS. Not sure where you got 6 DPS from unless you're counting the tanks in that. Which WAR is basically a DPS with mitigation considering the damage it can pump out.

Good healers can contribute 2,000 DPS easily to an 8-man group. Of which there are 2 healers, so that's 4,000 DPS. Those aren't numbers to scoff at.

At the end of the day, as long as the boss dies, the boss dies. As long as a healer isn't running their MP dry on overhealing to the point they are in danger of running out in a real emergency, it really isn't THAT big of a deal.

Typically healers that blatantly overheal thoughout the entirety of a fight are the healers that cannot manage their MP because they waste it on unneeded Medica IIs, ET+Succors, or Aspected Helioses, none of which are cheap in terms of cost.


Re: Remarks about Savage--I used that to display my own skill compared to Ruf's, since he is considering his way of play far superior than anyone else's. You'd know that if you read his posts.

A person who rolls Double Diurnal isn't going to clear Savage content. A person who refuses to adapt and work with his co-healer isn't going to clear Savage content. I'm not saying it with the intent that he plans to participate, in saying it to illustrate that I know what I'm talking about. Contrary to what he thinks.

I'm well aware that not everyone does Savage, and I'm not against that. Nor am I against people not being 99the percentile. But I am blatantly against people shelling out poor advice and ways of play. Which he has been doing the entire thread.

[Maeka]

I mean, you don't have to read the thread. Just saying.

No, I don't have the read the thread, I'm just more sad that it's yet more bickering between players over something that's generally not an issue. I've tanked quite a few dungeons and I've not seen these heal-spammy healers much, and in 8mans, my co-healers aren't typically this kind.



The OP (and others) are making it sound like you see them in every other random DF run and I simply don't find that's the case.

8-man groups are 2 tanks, 2 healers, 4 DPS, save for 24-mans which are 1 tank, 2 healers, and 5 DPS. Not sure where you got 6 DPS from unless you're counting the tanks in that. Which WAR is basically a DPS with mitigation considering the damage it can pump out.

The OT usually puts up their DPS stance which kinda makes them a half-DPS and yes you got Warriors as you said. But yeah that was a minor math error, but not Entirely incorrect. You could say that the two tanks are probably equivalent to one DPS, so okay fine, you got 5 DPS in an 8-man group.

Good healers can contribute 2,000 DPS easily to an 8-man group. Of which there are 2 healers, so that's 4,000 DPS. Those aren't numbers to scoff at.

But yet still insignificant as to the actual kill speed of the entire battle, if you were to cut it in half, or remove it entirely.

Typically healers that blatantly overheal thought the entirety of a fight are the healers that cannot manage their MP because they waste it on unneeded Medica IIs, ET+Succors, or Aspected Helioses, none of which are cheap in terms of cost.

Sometimes, sometimes not. If one healer is overhealing, the other can do more DPS? *shrug*

And yes, I said earlier in the thread, that I am not talking about egregious cases, but the OP and some others in the thread seem to take this tone that ANY overhealing at all is bad.

Dunno about AST and SCH, but WHM can throw out heals until the cows come home, between Assize and Lucid, you'd pretty much have to be casting Medicas on cooldown to actually run out of MP (and use absolutely none of your cooldowns, free buttons, or do anything else that costs less MP).

I've literally gotten killed in, say, Castrum Fluminis, get up, throw Lucid and Assize and lay into several Medicas because of people actually getting hit with junk, and about 30 seconds later I'm standing there with half or more MP.

[HyoMinPark]

But yet still insignificant as to the actual kill speed of the entire battle, if you were to cut it in half, or remove it entirely.

That is incorrect.

Sometimes, sometimes not. If one healer is overhealing, the other can do more DPS? *shrug*

The overhealing healer typically overheals and negates any healing their co-healer does. There is a reason I do not roll Regen healers, because my co-healers tend to effectively negate my HoTs with their own heal spam. At that point, they are not only wasting their own MP, but mine as well.

And yes, I said earlier in the thread, that I am not talking about egregious cases, but the OP and some others in the thread seem to take this tone that ANY overhealing at all is bad.

Blatant and repeated/intentional overhealing is bad; it's wasteful and should be avoided. Which this thread is about repeated/blatant overhealing (Medica II spam when no one is taking damage), and one poster's posts are about intentional overhealing (keeping people at 100% HP 100% of the time, and healing on top of regens without letting them do the work they're intended to do). Please read the thread before you jump into it next time.