DRK changes from Prelim notes

[Luin]

with Dark Mind (which was an actual engaging use of Dark Arts) .

Nobody used DADM except in Neo and Prime.

since shake it off is miles better that TBN DRK should wiled the best dps of the 3 or at least being equal to war, not being the lowest of the 3,and if you think DRK is more easy that PLD you never try seriously optimice DRK.

SIO and TBN arent even remotely similar.

SqEnix made SS great again!

This would imply that SS was ever good in the first place.

I'm just happy they ultimately didn't go with the PVP Sole Survivor. It would have been better but it would have been boring.

[Tanathya]

Nobody used DADM except in Neo and Prime.

Because, to begin with, DM is as niche as it gets. But my point still stands, it was an engaging use of Dark Arts nevertheless.

[Tint]

Because, to begin with, DM is as niche as it gets. But my point still stands, it was an engaging use of Dark Arts nevertheless.

i thought it was the most boring way to use dark arts. on par with dark dance, but that skill is gone now...

don't get me wrong, both effects were strong, but the feedback was.... meh. use dark arts, then this cooldown and... nothing happens? when empowering an attack with dark arts i get the feeling of now i load my mana into my blade and now i unleash it for more power! - thanks to the attack animation^^ with dark mind just an icon appeared. at least blackest night is visually more appealing and when the shield breaks there is a sound effect and the blood gauge fills, to unleash a powerfull counter attack :O

[Tanathya]

i thought it was the most boring way to use dark arts. on par with dark dance, but that skill is gone now...

don't get me wrong, both effects were strong, but the feedback was.... meh. use dark arts, then this cooldown and... nothing happens? when empowering an attack with dark arts i get the feeling of now i load my mana into my blade and now i unleash it for more power! - thanks to the attack animation^^ with dark mind just an icon appeared. at least blackest night is visually more appealing and when the shield breaks there is a sound effect and the blood gauge fills, to unleash a powerfull counter attack :O

You had to time DA with DM, it was actually fun. Can't say the same for DD, didn't like DA on that one much. Anyway, DA is now a spammy skill that doesn't weave as it did back in HW. It felt like you were dancing, it was natural. Feels so clunky now.

[Luin]

You had to time DA with DM, it was actually fun. Can't say the same for DD, didn't like DA on that one much. Anyway, DA is now a spammy skill that doesn't weave as it did back in HW. It felt like you were dancing, it was natural. Feels so clunky now.

I completely disagree. It was more of a hassle than anything fun. Either you clip your GCD or you waste duration by needing to DADM early when you HS. It could have been fine if literally every gcd besides HS didn't eat Dark Arts. Considering it's a defensive cd, I don't like feeling forced to use it early not because the fight requires it, but because my rotation does. And unlike Thrill+Upheaval I'm not gaining, I'm just not losing anything; except during buffs, where you'd lose a lot of dmg.

As for having to time DADM, that's nonsense. You time every cd. Your cooldowns should be mapped for a fight, timing DADM isn't a thing, it's an inconvenience compared to normal cooldowns like SWall/TBN/LD because while those can just be *used* when you expect, DADM must be used on HS/SS, or you skip a DASE/BS, or clip. Under BW it's only usable with HS w/o clipping.

DA back in HW didnt feel clunky because you didn't DA 8 times a minute. Look at Creator, look at Sigma, we're using Dark Arts on average twice as much as HW DRK.

And during Blood Weapon or Trick Attack? You're kidding. Machinists think they have it hard. The DA spam is unreal.

[Tanathya]

As for having to time DADM, that's nonsense. You time every cd. Your cooldowns should be mapped for a fight, timing DADM isn't a thing, it's an inconvenience compared to normal cooldowns like SWall/TBN/LD because while those can just be *used* when you expect, DADM must be used on HS/SS, or you skip a DASE/BS, or clip. Under BW it's only usable with HS w/o clipping.

Lol right, though I remember having to time it on Alexander Savage and it was really fun to do. Not that I'm not welcoming the change, I just don't like the turn Dark Arts has taken in SB for the worse and would definitely rather have the old DRK. Having this DA spam is what's wrong. So, nonsense my ass, it was fun to time DA and DM, that you don't see it that way is something as subjective as my own point of view.

[shao32]

SIO and TBN arent even remotely similar.

no, they are not similar but fall in the same category with is mitigation utility to the raid, SIO is superior in all sense bcs shield 8 person every 90 seconds for almost every important raid damage, to shield 8 person with TBN you have to spend 120 seconds.

we can talk about they work diferent yes but in the end SIO offer much more damage mitigation even much more if you planned you CD usage and have all the time raw to spend on SIO while TBN become counterproductiveuse used almost on CD due you will constantly overcaping you blood due the little control you have about when exactly pops and after reach a certain number TBN become a dps loose.

[Quor]

no, they are not similar but fall in the same category with is mitigation utility to the raid, SIO is superior in all sense bcs shield 8 person every 90 seconds for almost every important raid damage, to shield 8 person with TBN you have to spend 120 seconds.

we can talk about they work diferent yes but in the end SIO offer much more damage mitigation even much more if you planned you CD usage and have all the time raw to spend on SIO while TBN become counterproductiveuse used almost on CD due you will constantly overcaping you blood due the little control you have about when exactly pops and after reach a certain number TBN become a dps loose.

No, SIO and TBN aren't the same thing, but I understand what you mean. Ideally, TBN is a solid anti-buster cooldown (and it fits that role nicely) OR a good raid helping skill for damage mitigation on a single target. In practice, with the recent SIO change that occurred in the last big patch, TBN has been overshadowed in that role. It's very easy to RI+SIO and get a 12% max hp shield on everyone in the raid with a 90s CD, and it's not that much harder to bump the shield up to 16% via well-timed use of Vengeance or ToB. And that's fine, since it's a single cooldown that, on it's own, isn't so hot. The issue is, while baseline SIO is 8% per person, TBN is only 10% on everyone but the DRK. Imo, TBN needs to be buffed to 15% when used on others in order to slot it more firmly in the niche of "use this as a cooldown to actually save one person's life." That would be a net of 60% over the course of 60s, whereas baseline SIO is 64% with a 90s CD, or 96% when paired with a single defensive CD.

I'd also like to see some kind of "consolation" mechanic if TBN doesn't get popped, but only on others. Something uniquely DRK, like a short-term buff that removes MP cost for the next two moves, or maybe the next Quietus or BS is auto-buffed with a free DA that is exclusive to that skill.

As for the prospective changes themselves, they're not terrible, but this obsession with DA usage needs to stop. I agree with those saying that DRK needs another combo of some sort. Functionally, DRK's have one combo of any worth right now, and while it's true we intersperse BS every now and then, there's so little variety that it makes me yearn for the days of HW DRK.

[DaulBan]

snip

A flat 20% of the DRK's HP in a shield no matter who the target is could be kinda interesting. It'd be a pretty exceptional single target piece of mitigation that stacks with other shields, sorta like Intervention but a lot beefier.

[shao32]

snip

thats what i mean, are diferent skills but offer the same, mitigation to others but in diferent forms, and SIO offer much more mitiagiton that TBN by a mile so due that relation DRK should out dps WAR by at least 100 dps to be complety in line with the other 2 on what they offer to the raid.

i highly preffer they buff DRK dps over buff TBN so this will make WAR dont be the best on everything except on raid utilitywith its just almost head to head with paladin.