Quote Originally Posted by Deceptus View Post
Sorry to boil your argument down to one issue but the answer is access.

Those willing to spend more have more access to sellable slots on the MB than those who don't.

They have the potential to make more in game money. It's not a direct pay X get Y gil, but the potential is there. Someone who doesn't pay only has 40 market board slots. Someone who pays $4 a month more gets access to 80 market board slots. They may or may not use them, but that's a fact that can't be disputed.

Anyone serious in market board manipulation is going to want as many slots as they can get.



It absolutely can. Battle Gear Pentamelded crafted gear is almost universally BiS. That is within the normal context of the game.

Pentamelded Crafted gear is always the best there is and is required for serious end game crafting. Scrip gear doesn't meet the minimums.
People seem to be missing the "within normal contexts" aspect of my point.

Crafted BiS gear is good gear, and is typically slightly better than certain gear, but its usually 1) relegated to Accessory slots, and 2) is not BiS at all tiers (it falls in and out of use, with the exception of Crafters. Ill give concession on that). In the larger context of ALL gear at ALL tiers, crafted Overmeld isnt a norm. It is an ideal that, again, isnt even directly linked. As a point, even IF I had a 100 million gil to spend, I may get shit on RNG and fail to overmeld decently, where as teh guy with 1 million might get all on a go. This is, of course, contingent again on making a profit with extra retainers/MB access. Meaning, even if you have access to the MB and the 2 extra retainers, youre still not guaranteed to make money.

Its an RNG, on and RNG, on a third RNG. There is going to have to be a point that we say "Hey, this is a bit to far removed to be a p2w". Considering the "You get more access, therefor its p2w", you can argue that about how retainers currently work. Put a dollar or two in and "Bam! I have more access! Im the winner!!!!"

Yet pragmatically speaking, having retainers doesnt translate, again, into gil or power. How you use them does, and there are people who can become wealthy without even utilizing more than 2. Does having 8 help? Sure, it can, depending how theyre managed. Is it "I buy 8, Ill be super rich and have the best gear and sucks for you casual plebs!"?

No.

Any cash item that can be exchanged for Gil from teh MS can be considered p2w depending how loose you are with your definitions on what constitutes p2w. Access is p2w if it directly gives you an endgame advantage to current content. Having more access to teh MB board on a transaction basis does not translate into "I get all the gilz EZGG". Having the potential for something to occur (get more Gil) isnt p2w, and then having more Gil doesnt mean you win either.

This, btw, gets more complicated because youre also going to start having to point out how introducing something into a system which benefits more than the initial buyer is inherently bad. What i mean by this is MOST p2w systems only benefit the buyer. Given the example someone posted of "Buy BiS accessories and pentameld them day one of the patch" = power (which is no different than someone who has that gil from doing marketing as it were, using the established system), you then run into a very interesting issue. If a person does that, as an example, that means SOMEONE else is profiting from that transaction (Gil Wise). So not only is the person who is using this system getting the p2w aspect, but auxiliary players who price gouge or spike prices (which can be any and all players) also benefit from it. Are they also benefitting from a p2w system, even though they dont actually pay anything?

You could easily argue that the system their introducing may revitalize the market, in that regards. It could skew it. But that then is a question of market balance, not power. This is my sticking point with P2W argument. People are conflating possible market changes and what it could mean as being the very same thing as buying armor/weapons/special access/easier bossfights. Theyre saying the possibility of something is akin to the very real thing of it. Cause worst case scenario: The App is popular, is used quite frequently (despite peoples claims of p2w) and deflates the concept of p2w as being bad, which in turn allows SE or other companies to justify doing actual p2w strategies. Its "Well you thought this was p2w, and look its not. All these other things wont be either (Proceeds to introduce a queue priority system, special legacy armors and weapons, and other componants which give payers more advantages over everyone else). Dont distill down something like this to p2w when its rng on rng on rng. Problematic to market stability? Sure. P2W? Not really.