How is ilvl an issue while leveling?

[Nestama]

Being i270 in castrum abania is fine as long as you know what you are doing

I disagree, especially if it's a tank and/or healer. A tank in full shire gear means the healer has to work extra hard just to keep them alive (especially against the final boss' tank buster that gets enhanced two times) and it also means DPS will probably need to intentionally play poorly (Level 68-69 weapon > Level 60 weapon) just so they don't rip hate and force the healer to work even harder.

When it's a healer, they heal for less, which means they'll most likely spam their {Heal} II spell and then be OOM pretty quickly.

When it's a DPS, the dungeon just takes longer. So unless the boss has a DPS check (or the tank mass pulls), no issues will arise... but don't be that DPS.

Trash mobs from Bardem's Mettle and on hit pretty damn hard. So always try to be in up to date gear, otherwise you're just going to be an inconvenience in some shape or form depending on your role.

[Vstarstruck]

I disagree, especially if it's a tank and/or healer. A tank in full shire gear means the healer has to work extra hard just to keep them alive (especially against the final boss' tank buster that gets enhanced two times) and it also means DPS will probably need to intentionally play poorly (Level 68-69 weapon > Level 60 weapon) just so they don't rip hate and force the healer to work even harder.

When it's a healer, they heal for less, which means they'll most likely spam their {Heal} II spell and then be OOM pretty quickly.

When it's a DPS, the dungeon just takes longer. So unless the boss has a DPS check (or the tank mass pulls), no issues will arise... but don't be that DPS.

Trash mobs from Bardem's Mettle and on hit pretty damn hard. So always try to be in up to date gear, otherwise you're just going to be an inconvenience in some shape or form depending on your role.

You never got 2 dps with mainly 270 gear and compared them to your average pug 280 ish w/e gear have you? Knowing what to do can go a long way but it is not going to bridge gap say i250 or something.

the only real diff is not doing the huge combine pulls, and even with not doing those, can still sub 20 mins there. You disagree because most pug dps are overall bad with the situation not something you seen. Theory crafting only goes so far.

[Nestama]

You never got 2 dps with mainly 270 gear and compared them to your average pug 280 ish w/e gear have you? Knowing what to do can go a long way but it is not going to bridge gap say i250 or something.

the only real diff is not doing the huge combine pulls, and even with not doing those, can still sub 20 mins there. You disagree because most pug dps are overall bad with the situation not something you seen. Theory crafting only goes so far.

No, but I've had a level 70 tank wearing Augmented Shire gear (weapon, armour and accessories). We made some progress with the trash mobs (one at a time, constantly ripping hate because Diversion was always on cool down), but eventually the tank just couldn't survive because they don't have the defence (and had around 38k HP). Once the tank was KO'd, everyone else eventually fell. Against trash mobs.

Tank 'DC'd,' we kicked them and got a WAR a few seconds later and cleared the dungeon with no issues. If a tank and a healer are not allowed to get a free pass for wearing shoddy gear, neither do the DPS.

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

and it also means DPS will probably need to intentionally play poorly (Level 68-69 weapon > Level 60 weapon) just so they don't rip hate and force the healer to work even harder.

A 270 ilvl weapon can hold aggro against any dps no matter how good they are through all of SB's leveling dungeons. It's basically impossible to lose hate with how insane threat modifiers are.

Not that it's my proudest moment, but I've done Abania in full i270 as a PLD (WAR and DRK are ez-mode aggro wise) with friends who know their SB rotations in and out. So long as the tank doesn't try to min-max his dps at that low of an ilvl, dps hate will never be an issue.

Not that I advocate going into Abania at ilvl 270, It just irks me when people say aggro is an issue when threat modifiers are so insane it's near-impossible to lose aggro if you're actually trying to hold it. Not holding hate with a 270 weapon is a skill issue on the tank's part, not an ilvl issue. Of course a higher ilvl weapon will make it easier, but it can still be easily done with i270, the tank just has to not be asleep when it comes to aggro management.

[Nestama]

snip.

Then the DRK I had was bad, as they could not hold hate.

[Lium]

Not that it's my proudest moment, but I've done Abania in full i270 as a PLD (WAR and DRK are ez-mode aggro wise) with friends who know their SB rotations in and out. So long as the tank doesn't try to min-max his dps at that low of an ilvl, dps hate will never be an issue.

Actually, I ripped aggro from the tank last night in Abania on the second boss, Number XXIV. I was i286. Have no idea what the tank was in. I believe he was a warrior. It was the job symbol that looked kind of like binoculars. I popped Embolden, charged in->enchanted melee combo->flipped out->Verflare->Fleche. Swiftcast->Verfire.

Next thing I know that big ugly thing was running right at me and I about peed my pants. I wasn't paying attention to the numbers, but I'm guessing I got a string of lucky crits. I did have a meal buff that gave +crit so maybe that's what happened.

[Vrankyl]

Actually, I ripped aggro from the tank last night in Abania on the second boss, Number XXIV. I was i286. Have no idea what the tank was in. I believe he was a warrior. It was the job symbol that looked kind of like binoculars. I popped Embolden, charged in->enchanted melee combo->flipped out->Verflare->Fleche. Swiftcast->Verfire.

Next thing I know that big ugly thing was running right at me and I about peed my pants. I wasn't paying attention to the numbers, but I'm guessing I got a string of lucky crits. I did have a meal buff that gave +crit so maybe that's what happened.

Can one tank Castrum Abania in i270 gear? Yes. But should it be something allowed? Not really. Most DF tanks like to think they can do everything the high geared tanks can do regardless of their own gear status, which is why dps at the right ilvl or higher that know their rotation well can rip off of these tanks with ease. Because the tank runs in does one aggro combo and goes full dps expecting they can do it cause they saw another tank do it, not realizing of course that the other tank was most likely far better geared than them.

This is probably the biggest reason as to why there should be a min ilvl requirement. It doesn't matter if it can be done. Many things can be done in pitiful gear by players that are able to play their classes to the fullest of their abilities, because these players also understand the limitations and adjust accordingly. However most of the play base does not get this and thus makes no attempt to adjust their dungeon play style based on their gear level thinking that they can do what they see others doing no matter what. A min ilvl will help prevent the worst of these situations by forcing players to have a set that is decent. Even more so with skip potion users. While rare you get the odd one that makes no attempt to upgrade their i260 basic shire gear they get with the potion until after they hit lvl 70. An i260 tank in even Doma Castle is a nightmare, let alone Castrum.

[Brill_]

Can one tank Castrum Abania in i270 gear? Yes. But should it be something allowed? Not really.

Most expert dungeons have a minilvl that's 20 ilvl below what the dungeon drops. For castrum, that would put the min ilvl right around 270. It's fine.

I find it it funny that everyone complains how easy the game is, yet expects everyone to overgear everything to make sure it's easy.

I DF a lot of stuff on tank and 95% of my runs are just fine. I rarely run into these super low ilvl folks people say are everywhere. Then again, I've yet to run into these mythical ice mages.

[Nestama]

Most expert dungeons have a minilvl that's 20 ilvl below what the dungeon drops. For castrum, that would put the min ilvl right around 270. It's fine.

I find it it funny that everyone complains how easy the game is, yet expects everyone to overgear everything to make sure it's easy.

I feel the minimal ilevel for Castrum Abania would/should be around i276. You need to take level into consideration as well, as the difference in defence between an i270 body piece and i288 body piece is pretty big (388) compared to an i310 and i325 piece (~38). You shouldn't say "it's fine" without following up with "highly not recommended" as that, to me, looks like you're enabling bad teamwork. It's forcing everyone else around that player to adjust to them alone.

And really? Level 68-69 gear is overgearing a level 69 dungeon?

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

Actually, I ripped aggro from the tank last night in Abania on the second boss, Number XXIV. I was i286. Have no idea what the tank was in. I believe he was a warrior. It was the job symbol that looked kind of like binoculars. I popped Embolden, charged in->enchanted melee combo->flipped out->Verflare->Fleche. Swiftcast->Verfire.

Next thing I know that big ugly thing was running right at me and I about peed my pants. I wasn't paying attention to the numbers, but I'm guessing I got a string of lucky crits. I did have a meal buff that gave +crit so maybe that's what happened.

Like I had mentioned, its a skill issue, not an ilvl one. RDM burst is countered extremely easy, especially as a WAR. If a tank knows their aggro toolkit, threat modifiers are just too powerful now for a tank who knows what they're doing to lose hate. Unless the tank is like, 20 ilvls below the dps, at which point it becomes sketch.
To put it in perspective, your entire combo you listed is roughly 2470 potency +/- autos during melee combo across 5 GCDs. Tomahawk + Onslaught alone is 4671 enmity without unchained, and that's purely on the very first GCD. That's also without the WAR getting a free 1620 aggro potency from Equilibirum, or using unchained to raise the Tomahawk + onlalught aggro to 5346.

That's also before the actual aggro combo, which combined is worth 4x a RDM's whole burst.

Regardless, my point is that if the tank focuses on aggro and knows how to actually generate aggro, a 270 weapon can outmatch any dps you might find. It's not impossible to rip off a tank, but it's basically impossible unless you're pulling way ahead of them or they're not comfortable with aggro management, or the tank is asleep/underestimating the dps (or the tank is just plain undergeared). But any tank who's comfortable with it is basically impossible.