How is ilvl an issue while leveling?

[Lium]

I saw in a couple threads this past week people complaining about ilvls while leveling. One player said it was hard for them to keep up and do duties because they didn't have the proper ilvl, and another player was complaining about people in DF not having appropriate gear.

This is an honest question from a super casual. How is that possible? My main job, RDM, is currently level 69 with ilvl 285 gear doing absolutely nothing but MSQ quests, dungeons and trials.

The only time I do sidequests is when I have to grind to level up to progress through the MSQ, and even those quests give gear sometimes.

Are the people saying they are having a hard time with ilvls skipping the MSQ or something? This should not be an issue while leveling. Item levels are something you worry about once you hit max level. Out of all the complaints I've seen about this game, this one is by far the weirdest.

What am I missing here?

[Rongway]

Item levels are something you worry about once you hit max level.

Tanks whose gear is not current will have lower HP and lower defense. Healers whose gear is not current will have weaker heals. If both the tank and the healer are undergeared, the tank might have a three-hit KO threshold and the healer might only restore 1/3 health with a tier II heal. In such a scenario, the tank will die, because the mobs will hit faster than the healer can heal.

DDs who are undergeared can turn a 15 minute run into a 25 minute run -- a 67% increase.

This is not just an issue at cap, and in actuality it is much less of an issue at cap because cap dungeons have minimum iLv requirements, and the other party members can often make up for a minimally-geared party member by being obscenely overgeared themselves. However, during leveling dungeons, which don't have a minimum iLv requirement, the party members are capped fairly low as well, so there is less room for them to make up for someone whose gear is outdated.


An extreme example for my own personal experience, I once had to heal a Sastasha run with a tank who had an average iLv somewhere between 1 and 2. He had one accessory, and his gear totaled only 24 item levels. One hit from a single trash mob would take him down to--no hyperbole--one third health. Despite my gear being syncked to the max, and my pre-casting heals, the only way we could keep him alive was to pull the things off him so that he wasn't tanking. This type of workaround, which should be avoided anyway because it doesn't give a tank the chance to learn to tank, does not work in later leveling dungeons, as trash mobs hit too hard for a healer or a DD to survive.

[Vstarstruck]

I saw in a couple threads this past week people complaining about ilvls while leveling. One player said it was hard for them to keep up and do duties because they didn't have the proper ilvl, and another player was complaining about people in DF not having appropriate gear.

This is an honest question from a super casual. How is that possible? My main job, RDM, is currently level 69 with ilvl 285 gear doing absolutely nothing but MSQ quests, dungeons and trials.

The only time I do sidequests is when I have to grind to level up to progress through the MSQ, and even those quests give gear sometimes.

Are the people saying they are having a hard time with ilvls skipping the MSQ or something? This should not be an issue while leveling. Item levels are something you worry about once you hit max level. Out of all the complaints I've seen about this game, this one is by far the weirdest.

What am I missing here?

What you are missing how lazy people can be. I have kicked a few a few times because they enter expert having under i290 gear (the level 70 job quest gives this) while not knowing how to basic rotation. You are trying to apply logic, and trying you best in comparison to people that want to rush to level to 70 in 5 days or whatever because they do not care about the 3 other people they make put extra effort.

Picture someone entering a level 69 DF with ilevel 250 or worse and compare that to your 285, that is what people are concerned about. Then there are people that wear gear that does not even fit their job, resulting in tanks having less hp then healers/ DPS. People are not asking for strict gating, just gating that filters out this BS.

People are tried of dealing with drama with people (one person sometimes to defend them "Oh it is not savage it is not a big deal" "Oh do not be elitist over gear despite the person being oneshoted by unlovable damage") with those that are clearly not ready to be in dungeon (insert name)

[Nestama]

What you are missing how lazy people can be. I have kicked a few a few times because they enter expert having under i290 gear (the level 70 job quest gives this) while not knowing how to basic rotation. You are trying to apply logic, and trying you best in comparison to people that want to rush to level to 70 in 5 days or whatever because they do not care about the 3 other people they make put extra effort.

Isn't it impossible for people to enter Expert Roulette below the minimal ilevel? The only time I think you would have ever see someone without/below i290 gear is in Ala Mhigo and... this is the only time I'm (somewhat) fair (I will tell them to do their Job quests the second they're done, since we all know what comes after). Some people just completely forget about their Job Quests... though HQ level 68 and level 69 dungeon gear is still kinda okay for Ala Mhigo.

That's it, though. If someone is a tank and is still wearing their Shire gear in the level 69 dungeon, then they're out of here (Levelling dungeons do not have a minimal ilevel requirement).

[Vstarstruck]

Isn't it impossible for people to enter Expert Roulette below the minimal ilevel? The only time I think you would have ever see someone without/below i290 gear is in Ala Mhigo and... this is the only time I'm (somewhat) fair (I will tell them to do their Job quests the second they're done, since we all know what comes after). Some people just completely forget about their Job Quests... though HQ level 68 and level 69 dungeon gear is still kinda okay for Ala Mhigo.

That's it, though. If someone is a tank and is still wearing their Shire gear in the level 69 dungeon, then they're out of here (Levelling dungeons do not have a minimal ilevel requirement).

... with someone with your experience you think you would know the answer to that question. Seen it in the drowned city of skalla (back when that was expert) and hell's lid. It is easy to carry gimp left side when right is easy to gear up to meet ilevel requirements.....

Overall I really do not care, as long as it is not glaring obvious it is going slow. Seeing that just reinforces the reason why they need be kicked. So maybe I seen it more times then I realize, it is likely I seen it in ala mhigo, but it was done so without being outright bad.

DF needs better gating requirements, maybe this is another problem that does not happen with the Japanese player base so they do not address it.

It's why I tend to bring at least one friend when I do my roulettes. We've gotten a tank just like that who didn't understand how to do their job and was so poorly geared that they might as well have been wearing tissue paper. After trying to talk them through at least using cooldowns so my job would be easier and getting nowhere, we all just eventually sat down until we could kick him. I know the developers are loathe to gate some content, but the dungeons /need/ minimum ilvl caps like the raids. I can live with poorly geared DPS, I already DPS as SCH and can generally make up for the slack. I can't deal with tanks who require constant overheals because one bad hit takes them down to nothing or healers who simply can't keep up at all even with baby pulls, and not for lack of trying.

They prob did not expect people to be so willing to enter places being obviously under geared. Going by the comments with the greed all wide in raids, it is likely they will never address this since it never happens with the Japanese player base with the defense is being given why that greed wide change is happening.

(small edit for the post below as i feel it is not worth a post quota)
I said "they enter expert having under i290 gear (the level 70 job quest gives this)" It is quite obvious it meant right was over to carry ilevel since level 70 quests don't gear the right -.-. I did not see ALL slots as in average where under 290, I said having under 290 gear. So in my view, I def explained everything.

You never saw people gimp the left for the right to carry them to meet the requirements, never? This is done because game makes right so much cheaper, like 3 right = body. 8 man you can get 2 right per week while getting none left. It is semi common maybe you never look enough.

[Nestama]

... with someone with your experience you think you would know the answer to that question. Seen it in the drowned city of skalla (back when that was expert) and hell's lid. It is easy to carry gimp left side when right is easy to gear up to meet ilevel requirements.....

Then you should have specified that, since you specifically said 'below i290.' It's easy for me to mistakenly assume you're talking about someone who is a fresh level 70 (I've honestly never encountered anyone who would have a decent right side, but a crummy left side. That's just bad sportsmanship, especially as the weapon is the single most important equipment when it comes to upgrades).

[SpiritMuse]

You won't have the same access to quests and free gear for any additional jobs you level, since you've already done them. That's the issue. Then it can be hard/annoying to keep up because you outlevel dungeons faster than you get the gear from them, and some people don't even bother at all.

[InkstainedGwyn]

What am I missing here?

Remember that you can only do MSQ once. This doesn't absolve people of needing proper ilvl to do dungeons - else it's a burden on the group - but after the first class you take through MSQ, you won't be getting those easy/free upgrades again. And most people don't want to grind dungeons to get a full set of gear. If it's their second class, that might be the issue. If they're on their first and selling their MSQ gear or turning it in for seals, that's their fault.

[Jijifli]

Remember that you can only do MSQ once. This doesn't absolve people of needing proper ilvl to do dungeons - else it's a burden on the group - but after the first class you take through MSQ, you won't be getting those easy/free upgrades again. And most people don't want to grind dungeons to get a full set of gear. If it's their second class, that might be the issue. If they're on their first and selling their MSQ gear or turning it in for seals, that's their fault.

You don't have to grind dungeons?

The vendors sell gear you know. And by 70 it isn't hard to get the gil for them. Besides, most people will level via dungeons after 60, meaning they're constantly getting gear.

[AxlStream]

You don't have to grind dungeons?

The vendors sell gear you know. And by 70 it isn't hard to get the gil for them. Besides, most people will level via dungeons after 60, meaning they're constantly getting gear.

It's kind of a waste to buy vendor gear when you won't use it enough to do anything with it long term anyways. Especially if you don't have a good way of making gil.