Released a broken Eureka

[Krotoan]

Somehow I have a feeling you havent done any other relics. SE hands you more than enough things maybe instead of calling things broken after twenty minutes of trying of anything that isnt explicit handholding, you get out of it what you put into it also "skilled at party forming?" because its soooo hard to ask for a party....

My LUX begs to differ. It's not hard for me. I have no problem bothering people for a party. But why should I have to? The rest of the game doesn't make me stand there and beg and it was one of the things I didn't enjoy about FFXI. Why put it back in the game?

"I don't know why you think putting the onus to make something accessible is on the player. " I'm not, SE has made it so the players have every opportunity to help each other out, plenty of times I've had other people in my instances explain things to me help me out if it doesnt happen right away keep trying, you wont accomplish anything if you give up.

And I'd be glad to help people out, but by blaming the players for not making parties and helping lowbies out you ARE making it their fault. Literally.

I've got suggestions on how to improve it and telling the company "it's ok, the people should just deal with it" is very selfish. This is the first introduction of this content, think of it as a beta its here in its current place is for players to try a rough version of the finished product so they can know from the players what does or doesnt work and make it more enjoyable in the future just writing the entire thing off because oh its broken is also selfish and doesnt help anyone yourself included.

When have I ever written the whole thing off? Are you thinking of someone else? I'm doing it! I'm level 15 and I just have to get to 19 to finish my relic. I'm suggesting improvements. SE has never simply removed content because of complaints and will likely NOT scrap eureka. I'm suggesting improvements though because SURE it's beta.. then you take the feeback , which is what I'm giving , and make improvements. Selfish is telling everyone else who has experienced it and found it trying that they just need to suck it up because it shouldn't be changed.

Why are you so determined to let obviously restrictive and short lived things stand when they could be better? because ive yet to see fair criticism from people who havent given it a fair chance just people who tried a few hours and gave up because omg its haaaard.

Once again, I'm nearly done with it. It's not HARD. It's frustratingly drawn out and when you circumvent that part it's boring and has superfluous mechanics.

I get you enjoy it and like I said earlier, have at it! Grind those levels and get that gear! .. I don't actually I have plenty of complaints but I see how calling it broken isnt constructive, and it gets annoying seeing a weeks worth of people throwing childish temper tantrums.

This is also very obviously worlds better than "hey lets run ARF 77 times" and the things im seeing people complain about is things that are fixed with 10% more effort, and hey if you dont want to put that effort in thats your decision it's optional content AND its likely to be heavily nerfed like literally every other relic ever.

[/QUOTE]
Show me one thing I've said that's childish. I've gone through great lengths to make every bit of input I've posted be constructive, well explained and civil. Calling something broken when it's broken and offering no solutions is still feedback and valuable, however I've also been offering alternatives. "Don't like it don't do it" is not a good solution. A true dev hears "This was very unattractive to me" and asks "why?". "wait till it's nerfed" is a very large cop out. As I've stated, calmly and distinctly, it isn't difficult to do but it could be so much more engaging if some changes were made.


I have a feeling you're replying to me but lumping me in with some of the more... colorful opposition. I am not them and will never think or argue like them. I will however continue to present my problems and argue that the content is not very welcoming or engaging.

[Crescents]

My LUX begs to differ. It's not hard for me. I have no problem bothering people for a party. But why should I have to? .

This is essentially what party finder is, begging for a party its only more efficient and you can be specific unless you want SE to add separate instances for different levels say only 1-10 can join one and 11-20 could join another when we queue in initially, thats quite literally the only thing SE can do besides add incentives it's up to the playerbase to work together and if we did split instances one would be dead and the other wouldnt as someone whos actually created many many NM parties I always add lower players if theres nobody else, contribution is contribution so the issues you're talking about arent present you're just giving up very quickly.

And I'd be glad to help people out, but by blaming the players for not making parties and helping lowbies out you ARE making it their fault. Literally. Because it is, you're acting like Eureka is unplayable when even with the slightest effort myself and many others have gotten along just fine, its a time sink yes (isn't every relic though? and if you've done a lux you should be aware of that)

I'm suggesting improvements. SE has never simply removed content because of complaints and will likely NOT scrap eureka. I'm suggesting improvements though because SURE it's beta.. You havent said a single constructive or helpful thing in any reply to me so far except that it's so awful and broken and terrible and SE needs to fix it but I've yet to see you bring up any alternatives or fixes.

Once again, I'm nearly done with it. It's not HARD. It's frustratingly drawn out and when you circumvent that part it's boring and has superfluous mechanics. Sure it's boring what relic isnt? heck, what grind isnt, its a timesink because its designed to be accessible for all players thats why it is nothing like the zodiac weapons very first step, again compared to the anima progression its a giant step forward.

Show me one thing I've said that's childish. I've gone through great lengths to make every bit of input I've posted be constructive, well explained and civil. Calling something broken when it's broken and offering no solutions is still feedback and valuable,
I actually wasnt talking about you specifically you'll notice in my original post you've so helpfully quoted I said people are not you it was referring to the people rage unsubbing which again is their pejorative but no, complaining and whining about how broken it is without explanations or alternatives isnt helpful in the slightest

it's like walking into starbucks saying "the coffee sucks I hate it here" isn't helpful I'm responding to what you said in relation to my posts im not doing a deep dive on your post history.

Also something constructive would be like, say they should add a daily quest from Krile that makes you kill X amount of mobs or NM and it'll give you an amount of xp and crystals to speed things up, or adding a level gap bonus similar to the mentor/sprout one that currently exists Eureka in it's current state isnt broken by any stretch of the imagination but its not perfect and I can guarentee if you formed a pf before going in it would fill in under ten minutes and all your issues would be gone, people are more than happy to help out low players. Again speaking from personal experience.

[Krotoan]

This is essentially what party finder is, begging for a party its only more efficient and you can be specific unless you want SE to add separate instances for different levels say only 1-10 can join one and 11-20 could join another when we queue in initially, thats quite literally the only thing SE can do besides add incentives it's up to the playerbase to work together and if we did split instances one would be dead and the other wouldnt as someone whos actually created many many NM
parties I always add lower players if theres nobody else, contribution is contribution so the issues you're talking about arent present you're just giving up very quickly.

Unfortunately party finder has become 11+ when I try to use it. We have a duty system for other instanced items, I'd love them to apply it to Eureka. The issues of people not wanting lowbies ? The issues of people only taking heal/res lowbies? The issues of future lowbies possibly being put in an instance with only pazuzu hunters? Which one? I'd say all of those are still relevant regardless of "contribution is contribution".. some even BECAUSE of contribution is contribution.

And I'd be glad to help people out, but by blaming the players for not making parties and helping lowbies out you ARE making it their fault. Literally. Because it is, you're acting like Eureka is unplayable when even with the slightest effort myself and many others have gotten along just fine, its a time sink yes (isn't every relic though? and if you've done a lux you should be aware of that)

Yes every relic is, but every relic wasn't a constant 3 hour streak of doing my rotation or standing around being useless while others did work. I am not saying it's unplayable. I'm saying it's unpleasant and not fun. I, again, have never said it's difficult. Effort isn't the issue I'm pressing. It's accessibility, engagement and enjoyment.

I'm suggesting improvements. SE has never simply removed content because of complaints and will likely NOT scrap eureka. I'm suggesting improvements though because SURE it's beta.. You havent said a single constructive or helpful thing in any reply to me so far except that it's so awful and broken and terrible and SE needs to fix it but I've yet to see you bring up any alternatives or fixes.

To YOU personally? Perhaps not. But I have ,earlier, suggested things like partyfinding, removing the useless elemental aspect or making it worth something (I'll admit, it's hard to think of HOW.. ) , level syncing , Changing xp loss to a teleport back to the starting point so you lose opportunity instead of progress. Pointing out problems and things I dislike about the content is constructive as long as I don't say something like "I just hate this". Why do I hate it? Why does it make me feel like something isn't worth it? Why am I reluctant to engage in an activity? All things that would be of concern and representing valuable feedback to someone trying to refine an experience.

Once again, I'm nearly done with it. It's not HARD. It's frustratingly drawn out and when you circumvent that part it's boring and has superfluous mechanics. Sure it's boring what relic isnt? heck, what grind isnt, its a timesink because its designed to be accessible for all players thats why it is nothing like the zodiac weapons very first step, again compared to the anima progression its a giant step forward.

It doesn't HAVE to be boring. It can be lengthy and investment heavy WITHOUT being boring. I don't pay to be bored and you shouldn't either. Just because something before was worse doesn't mean I can't hope that something later would be better or improved.

Show me one thing I've said that's childish. I've gone through great lengths to make every bit of input I've posted be constructive, well explained and civil. Calling something broken when it's broken and offering no solutions is still feedback and valuable,
I actually wasnt talking about you specifically you'll notice in my original post you've so helpfully quoted I said people are not you it was referring to the people rage unsubbing which again is their pejorative but no, complaining and whining about how broken it is without explanations or alternatives isnt helpful in the slightest

OK, dropped then.

it's like walking into starbucks saying "the coffee sucks I hate it here" isn't helpful I'm responding to what you said in relation to my posts im not doing a deep dive on your post history.

I agree, that's very unhelpful.

[Crescents]

I agree, that's very unhelpful.

Surely you can say how it's unhepful to simple say, it's so broken without any reasonable alternatives then?

Unfortunately party finder has become 11+ when I try to use it. We have a duty system for other instanced items, I'd love them to apply it to Eureka. Sure if you're looking form your own party im sure theres people that need exactly what you do instance PF would be helpful but Eureka is far from broken without it which is what the OP is implying. I agree the magia board needs to be reworked or totally removed and im sorry but at level 17+ I was in parties and formed parties that were taking lvl 4 and under players so its not my experience they are abandoned.

Yes every relic is, but every relic wasn't a constant 3 hour streak of doing my rotation or standing around being useless while others did work. I would say this is the fault of the way the playerbase chooses to be and without ridiculous incentives we won't see any change, and I would say compared to other relics this is a breath of fresh air, it's sociable and its not another tome/light grind until you cry sure this is boring and every relic was but you're right it doesnt have to be but as it stands Eureka is a giant leap forward and with feedback hopefully it can be something people enjoy.

SE hand holds you everywhere in ffxiv, how is that an argument for anything? Lacking tools is not a pro for this content, it was released unfinished it was rushed out because they needed get something out after all this time.

I don't agree, I dont think it lacks tools theres introductory quests and most people in the instance will be more than happy to help and I dont think it was rushed, I think they waited all this time to have it better and its better to look at it like a work in progress that is workable and when they finally have player criticism will be improved it's kinda silly to find it broken.

This diadem requires too much time in one sitting, the other relics did not have this issue. Yeah actually they did, umbrite and unidentifieds when they were new in heavensward took MUCH longer than Eureka does, people had weapons in two days for tose steps they didnt for much, much longer also the fact that you did a relic in XI is kinda irrelevant.

I also spent 2-3 hours across 5 days I think, and I still think it is the worst most boring thing 2-3 hours isnt enough time to fairly judge content as expansive as this, also I dont see why I should have to read a specific thread which is probably an echo chamber just to respond to you.

this is 4.25, being a beta has no defense here. They had no player feedback til now please say how they were supposed to make it perfect on release?

it gets annoying seeing people trying to defend it, annoying to see SE white knights insulting people for disliking it. I'm not a "white knight" whatever that is, I've acknowledged Eureka has its flaws its far from perfect but it is not broken and I believe it'll be better when they adjust future updates with feedback that they now have and im sorry just because people insult you (which ive not done) doesnt even in the slightest mean the content is broken.

In-fact 1-2 hrs should be simply easier with easier to solo and better introductions to let people warm up to it better. it's an MMO we've known the basic concept of what Eureka was for months we knew it was an open world-ish with an independant levelling systems if you've been following it at all you would know this and wouldnt be complaining and it's an MMO it's meant to be played cooperatively they're not to make purely solo play more rewarding than group play, they're incentivising people to work together hence why every quest doesnt have markers and FORCES you to ask other people.

[AlphaSonic]

This diadem requires too much time in one sitting, the other relics did not have this issue. Yeah actually they did, umbrite and unidentifieds when they were new in heavensward took MUCH longer than Eureka does, people had weapons in two days for tose steps they didnt for much, much longer also the fact that you did a relic in XI is kinda irrelevant.

What? You could farm poetics, seals, tomestone, beast tribes... Farming unidentified was slow, but one time in the same place? That's fake news. You could even do PvP to farm unidentified, you could do everything you wanted to farm unidentified.

[Crescents]

What? You could farm poetics, seals, tomestone, beast tribes... Farming unidentified was slow, but one time in the same place?

Sorry had to finish laughing before I respond to this im not even sure if its a troll post or not, did you actually call something fake news...? I mean really?

I was referring to the ARF grind for poetics which was the most effective method which was what MOST of us did, myself included sure there were dailies (which ive already suggested they add in eureka if you had even read my posts in their entirety) but yes you could get them through lots of methods but for most people it was either waiting MONTHS on unids for them to come from your daily beast tribes, roulettes etc or you were spamming one piece of content over and over and over and over again which was again my point.

[AlphaSonic]

Sorry had to finish laughing before I respond to this im not even sure if its a troll post or not, did you actually call something fake news...? I mean really?

I was referring to the ARF grind for poetics which was the most effective method which was what MOST of us did, myself included sure there were dailies (which ive already suggested they add in eureka if you had even read my posts in their entirety) but yes you could get them through lots of methods but for most people it was either waiting MONTHS on unids for them to come from your daily beast tribes, roulettes etc or you were spamming one piece of content over and over and over and over again which was again my point.

It was meant to be a joke.


But what is the difference between fate farming/hunting combined and the old relic? The old relic was fate farming, farming poetics, farming hunts. The only difference is now you can only do it in 1 place and you don't even have the option to find other ways to farm it. At least when we need to farm poetics I can find a lot of different content for farming. If I don't like Eureka, I'm done, no relic for me, I can't do PvP, I can't do raids,I can't farm dungeons.
Oh cool they've developed a new background for the Alexandrite step of the new relic, HOW ORIGINAL.

My problem with this Eureka is that there's nearly NOTHING NEW.
There's only a few new things: 3 minions, 1 mount, the relic, the spinning wheel and Pazuzu because all the other mobs are recycled. And the fate system in Eureka is just the S Hunt spawn system but with a fate marker on the Hunt instead of being invisible in the map and having to find and dumbed down because you can only spawn them by killing mobs.

One of the good things for me is that in 3 days you can be done already and thank god.

Just to be clear, I didn't like the old relic neither the new one, but I was expecting from Eureka something new. Palace of the Dead had the pomanders to make it entertaining, there was exploration, it was an alternate way to level up and at the same time try new classes and if you wanted to go for more difficult stuff you could go down deep. Eureka right now it feels shallow and recycled content.

[Vivi_Bushido]

What? You could farm poetics, seals, tomestone, beast tribes... Farming unidentified was slow, but one time in the same place? That's fake news. You could even do PvP to farm unidentified, you could do everything you wanted to farm unidentified.

Sure you could. On old outdated content you have already seen and done before hundreds of times in an effortless attempt to keep old content from dying. Eureka is at least on a new map. Sure, it's still FATEs but at least the FATEs are new stuff, even with mechanics I might add. Sure beats running the same outdated content one million times for poe because the internet wizards say this one specific activity is the faster than all the rest. Eureka also adds more rewards than just the relic, and offers the easiest method for completing all the relics in a single stage. It already offers far more verity than both previous relics ever did.

[Krotoan]

Surely you can say how it's unhepful to simple say, it's so broken without any reasonable alternatives then?

Unfortunately party finder has become 11+ when I try to use it. We have a duty system for other instanced items, I'd love them to apply it to Eureka. Sure if you're looking form your own party im sure theres people that need exactly what you do instance PF would be helpful but Eureka is far from broken without it which is what the OP is implying. I agree the magia board needs to be reworked or totally removed and im sorry but at level 17+ I was in parties and formed parties that were taking lvl 4 and under players so its not my experience they are abandoned.

Alternatives would be nice, but what the OP did was give examples of why they felt it was broken, which is useful. The perspective of someone dropping into the content and what they felt and their point of view is a valuable resource for someone planning content changes or even future content. Sure we can "educate" them on the best way to do it or the proper way to do it, but telling them their experience was invalid and they're foolish helps very little.
The content is 2 weeks old, the "zerg" is still spanning a decent amount of levels and there will always be a few charitable people in a group trying out new content. Future populations will tend to be far more spread apart level wise and likely limited to people doing the relic grind only, I hope people are there to help, but it will depend on them being charitable for charities sake, something I will not bet money on. This is something I really hope I'm wrong about.

Yes every relic is, but every relic wasn't a constant 3 hour streak of doing my rotation or standing around being useless while others did work. I would say this is the fault of the way the playerbase chooses to be and without ridiculous incentives we won't see any change, and I would say compared to other relics this is a breath of fresh air, it's sociable and its not another tome/light grind until you cry sure this is boring and every relic was but you're right it doesnt have to be but as it stands Eureka is a giant leap forward and with feedback hopefully it can be something people enjoy.

You can bet money that players will always, ALWAYS find the easiest way to do content and then the majority will only do that until the content is spent or changed (see "loot cave" from destiny) . Expecting them not to is setting your system up for failure. Feedback like what we don't enjoy and what we think doesn't work. I don't think incentives are the ONLY way to encourage people to assist underlevels but it's probably the easiest to add and path of least resistance has been the norm. Can you honestly say If I ran an alt and asked people to party up and do the mob chain and only invite people near our level as the content seems to intend.. I'd not be looking a very long while?

[Crescents]

Sure we can "educate" them on the best way to do it or the proper way to do it, but telling them their experience was invalid and they're foolish helps very little.

I agree, but what I've seen of these forums the last little while the majority of people try it for a little bit get either bored, stressed out or maybe are just new to what a huge step up of a grind the relic-based content seems to have in contrast with the rest of the game and come onto the forums to proclaim it broken and how they're unsubbing which is why my responses lean towards dismissive I've also seen in my experience people more charitable than not the way I see it, the more people they can make competent the faster NMs melt, the less effort they need to spend.


I don't think incentives are the ONLY way to encourage people to assist underlevels but it's probably the easiest to add and path of least resistance has been the norm. most likely not but they'd be the least effort hence something SE could implement faster the Eureka hate bandwagon is still in full swing it seems though, when it stops being trendy to hate on the content for no reason I think you'll see more real criticism and people actually giving it a fair shot and it being significantly less grindy than the past. The biggest advantage Eureka seems to have is by the time you're level 20 you have enough anemos crystals to buy multiple relics and those who multi class will be surprised to learn once you have more it takes very little effort to get multiple (I had three relics within hours or reaching level 19+)

It's getting really early here so this will be my last reply, but thank you for keeping your responses respectful (not something I see often. . .) and you've given me a lot to think about and made really good points. and lets just both continue to stay painfully optimistic that the next update whatever it may be will fix the issues you and I and the other people in this thread are having.