Released a broken Eureka

[Krotoan]

This isnt a flaw with Eureka anyone whos been playing MMOs for longer than six months recognizes this behavior its not an inherent problem with the content it's a problem with people only wanting the best groups to get done the fastest, I'm max elemental level with several relics and honestly you can find a party you just have to be willing to look, sure it'll take sometime it'll happen but it will.

I'm really struggling to understand how it's SE's fault people cant get parties, it isn't, all SE can do is add incentives to take lower levelled players but thats not SE's responsibility its the players to stop being selfish theres even ways around just spamming shout chat 'til you get an invite.

You could ask any FCs/LSs you're a part of or put up a PF beforehand to find players around your level to go with there's plenty trust me. This community needs to be stop being so determined to hate this content and actually put some effort in to make it work for them, because its sure as kupo better than another monotonous tome grind.

It is SE's objective to make content engaging for as many players as possible. Excluding people who aren't skilled at party forming or don't want to stand around in an instance yelling for 20 minutes isn't productive. Especially when the rest of the game has a "pick the thing you want to do, wait for it to start" mechanic.

I don't know why you think putting the onus to make something accessible is on the player.
The fact they COULD have made SOMETHING to help those people out, even designed the system better to make it beneficial to pick up other players besides similar level players is a failing.
I'm NOT determined to hate it, I want it to be friendly to everyone and it wont be. I've got mine, but it wasn't very fun and I don't see it being fun in the future. I've got suggestions on how to improve it and telling the company "it's ok, the people should just deal with it" is very selfish.

Why are you so determined to let obviously restrictive and short lived things stand when they could be better?

I get you enjoy it and like I said earlier, have at it! Grind those levels and get that gear! .. but people are going to be left behind and feeling crappy about it and it could be fixed without ANY detriment to the experience you already had. It might even make it so more people are playing for the next step and you'll get that social interaction in spades.

[Crescents]

It is SE's objective to make content engaging for as many players as possible. Excluding people who aren't skilled at party forming or don't want to stand around in an instance yelling for 20 minutes isn't productive.

Somehow I have a feeling you havent done any other relics. SE hands you more than enough things maybe instead of calling things broken after twenty minutes of trying of anything that isnt explicit handholding, you get out of it what you put into it also "skilled at party forming?" because its soooo hard to ask for a party....

"I don't know why you think putting the onus to make something accessible is on the player. " I'm not, SE has made it so the players have every opportunity to help each other out, plenty of times I've had other people in my instances explain things to me help me out if it doesnt happen right away keep trying, you wont accomplish anything if you give up.

I've got suggestions on how to improve it and telling the company "it's ok, the people should just deal with it" is very selfish. This is the first introduction of this content, think of it as a beta its here in its current place is for players to try a rough version of the finished product so they can know from the players what does or doesnt work and make it more enjoyable in the future just writing the entire thing off because oh its broken is also selfish and doesnt help anyone yourself included.

Why are you so determined to let obviously restrictive and short lived things stand when they could be better? because ive yet to see fair criticism from people who havent given it a fair chance just people who tried a few hours and gave up because omg its haaaard.

I get you enjoy it and like I said earlier, have at it! Grind those levels and get that gear! .. I don't actually I have plenty of complaints but I see how calling it broken isnt constructive, and it gets annoying seeing a weeks worth of people throwing childish temper tantrums.

This is also very obviously worlds better than "hey lets run ARF 77 times" and the things im seeing people complain about is things that are fixed with 10% more effort, and hey if you dont want to put that effort in thats your decision it's optional content AND its likely to be heavily nerfed like literally every other relic ever.

[Krotoan]

Somehow I have a feeling you havent done any other relics. SE hands you more than enough things maybe instead of calling things broken after twenty minutes of trying of anything that isnt explicit handholding, you get out of it what you put into it also "skilled at party forming?" because its soooo hard to ask for a party....

My LUX begs to differ. It's not hard for me. I have no problem bothering people for a party. But why should I have to? The rest of the game doesn't make me stand there and beg and it was one of the things I didn't enjoy about FFXI. Why put it back in the game?

"I don't know why you think putting the onus to make something accessible is on the player. " I'm not, SE has made it so the players have every opportunity to help each other out, plenty of times I've had other people in my instances explain things to me help me out if it doesnt happen right away keep trying, you wont accomplish anything if you give up.

And I'd be glad to help people out, but by blaming the players for not making parties and helping lowbies out you ARE making it their fault. Literally.

I've got suggestions on how to improve it and telling the company "it's ok, the people should just deal with it" is very selfish. This is the first introduction of this content, think of it as a beta its here in its current place is for players to try a rough version of the finished product so they can know from the players what does or doesnt work and make it more enjoyable in the future just writing the entire thing off because oh its broken is also selfish and doesnt help anyone yourself included.

When have I ever written the whole thing off? Are you thinking of someone else? I'm doing it! I'm level 15 and I just have to get to 19 to finish my relic. I'm suggesting improvements. SE has never simply removed content because of complaints and will likely NOT scrap eureka. I'm suggesting improvements though because SURE it's beta.. then you take the feeback , which is what I'm giving , and make improvements. Selfish is telling everyone else who has experienced it and found it trying that they just need to suck it up because it shouldn't be changed.

Why are you so determined to let obviously restrictive and short lived things stand when they could be better? because ive yet to see fair criticism from people who havent given it a fair chance just people who tried a few hours and gave up because omg its haaaard.

Once again, I'm nearly done with it. It's not HARD. It's frustratingly drawn out and when you circumvent that part it's boring and has superfluous mechanics.

I get you enjoy it and like I said earlier, have at it! Grind those levels and get that gear! .. I don't actually I have plenty of complaints but I see how calling it broken isnt constructive, and it gets annoying seeing a weeks worth of people throwing childish temper tantrums.

This is also very obviously worlds better than "hey lets run ARF 77 times" and the things im seeing people complain about is things that are fixed with 10% more effort, and hey if you dont want to put that effort in thats your decision it's optional content AND its likely to be heavily nerfed like literally every other relic ever.

[/QUOTE]
Show me one thing I've said that's childish. I've gone through great lengths to make every bit of input I've posted be constructive, well explained and civil. Calling something broken when it's broken and offering no solutions is still feedback and valuable, however I've also been offering alternatives. "Don't like it don't do it" is not a good solution. A true dev hears "This was very unattractive to me" and asks "why?". "wait till it's nerfed" is a very large cop out. As I've stated, calmly and distinctly, it isn't difficult to do but it could be so much more engaging if some changes were made.


I have a feeling you're replying to me but lumping me in with some of the more... colorful opposition. I am not them and will never think or argue like them. I will however continue to present my problems and argue that the content is not very welcoming or engaging.

[Crescents]

My LUX begs to differ. It's not hard for me. I have no problem bothering people for a party. But why should I have to? .

This is essentially what party finder is, begging for a party its only more efficient and you can be specific unless you want SE to add separate instances for different levels say only 1-10 can join one and 11-20 could join another when we queue in initially, thats quite literally the only thing SE can do besides add incentives it's up to the playerbase to work together and if we did split instances one would be dead and the other wouldnt as someone whos actually created many many NM parties I always add lower players if theres nobody else, contribution is contribution so the issues you're talking about arent present you're just giving up very quickly.

And I'd be glad to help people out, but by blaming the players for not making parties and helping lowbies out you ARE making it their fault. Literally. Because it is, you're acting like Eureka is unplayable when even with the slightest effort myself and many others have gotten along just fine, its a time sink yes (isn't every relic though? and if you've done a lux you should be aware of that)

I'm suggesting improvements. SE has never simply removed content because of complaints and will likely NOT scrap eureka. I'm suggesting improvements though because SURE it's beta.. You havent said a single constructive or helpful thing in any reply to me so far except that it's so awful and broken and terrible and SE needs to fix it but I've yet to see you bring up any alternatives or fixes.

Once again, I'm nearly done with it. It's not HARD. It's frustratingly drawn out and when you circumvent that part it's boring and has superfluous mechanics. Sure it's boring what relic isnt? heck, what grind isnt, its a timesink because its designed to be accessible for all players thats why it is nothing like the zodiac weapons very first step, again compared to the anima progression its a giant step forward.

Show me one thing I've said that's childish. I've gone through great lengths to make every bit of input I've posted be constructive, well explained and civil. Calling something broken when it's broken and offering no solutions is still feedback and valuable,
I actually wasnt talking about you specifically you'll notice in my original post you've so helpfully quoted I said people are not you it was referring to the people rage unsubbing which again is their pejorative but no, complaining and whining about how broken it is without explanations or alternatives isnt helpful in the slightest

it's like walking into starbucks saying "the coffee sucks I hate it here" isn't helpful I'm responding to what you said in relation to my posts im not doing a deep dive on your post history.

Also something constructive would be like, say they should add a daily quest from Krile that makes you kill X amount of mobs or NM and it'll give you an amount of xp and crystals to speed things up, or adding a level gap bonus similar to the mentor/sprout one that currently exists Eureka in it's current state isnt broken by any stretch of the imagination but its not perfect and I can guarentee if you formed a pf before going in it would fill in under ten minutes and all your issues would be gone, people are more than happy to help out low players. Again speaking from personal experience.

[Krotoan]

This is essentially what party finder is, begging for a party its only more efficient and you can be specific unless you want SE to add separate instances for different levels say only 1-10 can join one and 11-20 could join another when we queue in initially, thats quite literally the only thing SE can do besides add incentives it's up to the playerbase to work together and if we did split instances one would be dead and the other wouldnt as someone whos actually created many many NM
parties I always add lower players if theres nobody else, contribution is contribution so the issues you're talking about arent present you're just giving up very quickly.

Unfortunately party finder has become 11+ when I try to use it. We have a duty system for other instanced items, I'd love them to apply it to Eureka. The issues of people not wanting lowbies ? The issues of people only taking heal/res lowbies? The issues of future lowbies possibly being put in an instance with only pazuzu hunters? Which one? I'd say all of those are still relevant regardless of "contribution is contribution".. some even BECAUSE of contribution is contribution.

And I'd be glad to help people out, but by blaming the players for not making parties and helping lowbies out you ARE making it their fault. Literally. Because it is, you're acting like Eureka is unplayable when even with the slightest effort myself and many others have gotten along just fine, its a time sink yes (isn't every relic though? and if you've done a lux you should be aware of that)

Yes every relic is, but every relic wasn't a constant 3 hour streak of doing my rotation or standing around being useless while others did work. I am not saying it's unplayable. I'm saying it's unpleasant and not fun. I, again, have never said it's difficult. Effort isn't the issue I'm pressing. It's accessibility, engagement and enjoyment.

I'm suggesting improvements. SE has never simply removed content because of complaints and will likely NOT scrap eureka. I'm suggesting improvements though because SURE it's beta.. You havent said a single constructive or helpful thing in any reply to me so far except that it's so awful and broken and terrible and SE needs to fix it but I've yet to see you bring up any alternatives or fixes.

To YOU personally? Perhaps not. But I have ,earlier, suggested things like partyfinding, removing the useless elemental aspect or making it worth something (I'll admit, it's hard to think of HOW.. ) , level syncing , Changing xp loss to a teleport back to the starting point so you lose opportunity instead of progress. Pointing out problems and things I dislike about the content is constructive as long as I don't say something like "I just hate this". Why do I hate it? Why does it make me feel like something isn't worth it? Why am I reluctant to engage in an activity? All things that would be of concern and representing valuable feedback to someone trying to refine an experience.

Once again, I'm nearly done with it. It's not HARD. It's frustratingly drawn out and when you circumvent that part it's boring and has superfluous mechanics. Sure it's boring what relic isnt? heck, what grind isnt, its a timesink because its designed to be accessible for all players thats why it is nothing like the zodiac weapons very first step, again compared to the anima progression its a giant step forward.

It doesn't HAVE to be boring. It can be lengthy and investment heavy WITHOUT being boring. I don't pay to be bored and you shouldn't either. Just because something before was worse doesn't mean I can't hope that something later would be better or improved.

Show me one thing I've said that's childish. I've gone through great lengths to make every bit of input I've posted be constructive, well explained and civil. Calling something broken when it's broken and offering no solutions is still feedback and valuable,
I actually wasnt talking about you specifically you'll notice in my original post you've so helpfully quoted I said people are not you it was referring to the people rage unsubbing which again is their pejorative but no, complaining and whining about how broken it is without explanations or alternatives isnt helpful in the slightest

OK, dropped then.

it's like walking into starbucks saying "the coffee sucks I hate it here" isn't helpful I'm responding to what you said in relation to my posts im not doing a deep dive on your post history.

I agree, that's very unhelpful.

[Crescents]

I agree, that's very unhelpful.

Surely you can say how it's unhepful to simple say, it's so broken without any reasonable alternatives then?

Unfortunately party finder has become 11+ when I try to use it. We have a duty system for other instanced items, I'd love them to apply it to Eureka. Sure if you're looking form your own party im sure theres people that need exactly what you do instance PF would be helpful but Eureka is far from broken without it which is what the OP is implying. I agree the magia board needs to be reworked or totally removed and im sorry but at level 17+ I was in parties and formed parties that were taking lvl 4 and under players so its not my experience they are abandoned.

Yes every relic is, but every relic wasn't a constant 3 hour streak of doing my rotation or standing around being useless while others did work. I would say this is the fault of the way the playerbase chooses to be and without ridiculous incentives we won't see any change, and I would say compared to other relics this is a breath of fresh air, it's sociable and its not another tome/light grind until you cry sure this is boring and every relic was but you're right it doesnt have to be but as it stands Eureka is a giant leap forward and with feedback hopefully it can be something people enjoy.

SE hand holds you everywhere in ffxiv, how is that an argument for anything? Lacking tools is not a pro for this content, it was released unfinished it was rushed out because they needed get something out after all this time.

I don't agree, I dont think it lacks tools theres introductory quests and most people in the instance will be more than happy to help and I dont think it was rushed, I think they waited all this time to have it better and its better to look at it like a work in progress that is workable and when they finally have player criticism will be improved it's kinda silly to find it broken.

This diadem requires too much time in one sitting, the other relics did not have this issue. Yeah actually they did, umbrite and unidentifieds when they were new in heavensward took MUCH longer than Eureka does, people had weapons in two days for tose steps they didnt for much, much longer also the fact that you did a relic in XI is kinda irrelevant.

I also spent 2-3 hours across 5 days I think, and I still think it is the worst most boring thing 2-3 hours isnt enough time to fairly judge content as expansive as this, also I dont see why I should have to read a specific thread which is probably an echo chamber just to respond to you.

this is 4.25, being a beta has no defense here. They had no player feedback til now please say how they were supposed to make it perfect on release?

it gets annoying seeing people trying to defend it, annoying to see SE white knights insulting people for disliking it. I'm not a "white knight" whatever that is, I've acknowledged Eureka has its flaws its far from perfect but it is not broken and I believe it'll be better when they adjust future updates with feedback that they now have and im sorry just because people insult you (which ive not done) doesnt even in the slightest mean the content is broken.

In-fact 1-2 hrs should be simply easier with easier to solo and better introductions to let people warm up to it better. it's an MMO we've known the basic concept of what Eureka was for months we knew it was an open world-ish with an independant levelling systems if you've been following it at all you would know this and wouldnt be complaining and it's an MMO it's meant to be played cooperatively they're not to make purely solo play more rewarding than group play, they're incentivising people to work together hence why every quest doesnt have markers and FORCES you to ask other people.

[AlphaSonic]

This diadem requires too much time in one sitting, the other relics did not have this issue. Yeah actually they did, umbrite and unidentifieds when they were new in heavensward took MUCH longer than Eureka does, people had weapons in two days for tose steps they didnt for much, much longer also the fact that you did a relic in XI is kinda irrelevant.

What? You could farm poetics, seals, tomestone, beast tribes... Farming unidentified was slow, but one time in the same place? That's fake news. You could even do PvP to farm unidentified, you could do everything you wanted to farm unidentified.

[Krotoan]

Surely you can say how it's unhepful to simple say, it's so broken without any reasonable alternatives then?

Unfortunately party finder has become 11+ when I try to use it. We have a duty system for other instanced items, I'd love them to apply it to Eureka. Sure if you're looking form your own party im sure theres people that need exactly what you do instance PF would be helpful but Eureka is far from broken without it which is what the OP is implying. I agree the magia board needs to be reworked or totally removed and im sorry but at level 17+ I was in parties and formed parties that were taking lvl 4 and under players so its not my experience they are abandoned.

Alternatives would be nice, but what the OP did was give examples of why they felt it was broken, which is useful. The perspective of someone dropping into the content and what they felt and their point of view is a valuable resource for someone planning content changes or even future content. Sure we can "educate" them on the best way to do it or the proper way to do it, but telling them their experience was invalid and they're foolish helps very little.
The content is 2 weeks old, the "zerg" is still spanning a decent amount of levels and there will always be a few charitable people in a group trying out new content. Future populations will tend to be far more spread apart level wise and likely limited to people doing the relic grind only, I hope people are there to help, but it will depend on them being charitable for charities sake, something I will not bet money on. This is something I really hope I'm wrong about.

Yes every relic is, but every relic wasn't a constant 3 hour streak of doing my rotation or standing around being useless while others did work. I would say this is the fault of the way the playerbase chooses to be and without ridiculous incentives we won't see any change, and I would say compared to other relics this is a breath of fresh air, it's sociable and its not another tome/light grind until you cry sure this is boring and every relic was but you're right it doesnt have to be but as it stands Eureka is a giant leap forward and with feedback hopefully it can be something people enjoy.

You can bet money that players will always, ALWAYS find the easiest way to do content and then the majority will only do that until the content is spent or changed (see "loot cave" from destiny) . Expecting them not to is setting your system up for failure. Feedback like what we don't enjoy and what we think doesn't work. I don't think incentives are the ONLY way to encourage people to assist underlevels but it's probably the easiest to add and path of least resistance has been the norm. Can you honestly say If I ran an alt and asked people to party up and do the mob chain and only invite people near our level as the content seems to intend.. I'd not be looking a very long while?

[Tridus]

Yes every relic is, but every relic wasn't a constant 3 hour streak of doing my rotation or standing around being useless while others did work. I would say this is the fault of the way the playerbase chooses to be and without ridiculous incentives we won't see any change, and I would say compared to other relics this is a breath of fresh air, it's sociable and its not another tome/light grind until you cry sure this is boring and every relic was but you're right it doesnt have to be but as it stands Eureka is a giant leap forward and with feedback hopefully it can be something people enjoy.

The playerbase has chosen to do the train because the train is effective for a lot of people at the same time. For cooperative play, no other method is even close. We had a group of friends at level 7, a level 5, a level 1, a level 17, and a few others in a party the other day. In the train, everyone in that group can get rewarded for every NM, can help each other, and can actually play together.

Chaining mobs, that group has to split up because the level spread makes it totally nonfunctional. Most of the group will get zero XP from everything except NMs. The entire rest of the game is built around rewarding progressed players for helping less progressed players and for giving you reasons to run content again in order to do that. Eureka goes the opposite way and says "your friend plays more than you, you can't play together". It's so out of step with the rest of the game's design that "broken" is a fair description.

The train fixes that. Frankly, the players in the train are generally pretty nice and want to see everyone get somewhere. I've seen high levels run back to res and escort low levels around as part of the train. It's the only way this content really works, and it's the players FIXING it for SE.

I don't agree, I dont think it lacks tools theres introductory quests and most people in the instance will be more than happy to help and I dont think it was rushed, I think they waited all this time to have it better and its better to look at it like a work in progress that is workable and when they finally have player criticism will be improved it's kinda silly to find it broken.

Given the fun of having NMs and half my party disappear when too many people show up, I don't know. The game gives me combat log data for 90 people not in my party but can't tell me where the NM is. That sounds pretty broken.

this is 4.25, being a beta has no defense here. They had no player feedback til now please say how they were supposed to make it perfect on release?

And whose fault is that, exactly? They're the ones who told us nothing in advance. They're the ones without a public test server. When you deliberately hide yourself from feedback prior to release, you lose the defense of "we didn't have any feedback prior to release".

I mean, some of this stuff should have been obvious. If SE doesn't know that players will optimize for time and effort to get rewards, than SE hasn't been paying attention.

it gets annoying seeing people trying to defend it, annoying to see SE white knights insulting people for disliking it. I'm not a "white knight" whatever that is, I've acknowledged Eureka has its flaws its far from perfect but it is not broken and I believe it'll be better when they adjust future updates with feedback that they now have and im sorry just because people insult you (which ive not done) doesnt even in the slightest mean the content is broken.

This I'll agree with. People tossing around "white knight" and "hater" and such are just being ridiculous. It is entirely possible for a reasonable person to like content that another reasonable person doesn't like.

In-fact 1-2 hrs should be simply easier with easier to solo and better introductions to let people warm up to it better. it's an MMO we've known the basic concept of what Eureka was for months we knew it was an open world-ish with an independant levelling systems if you've been following it at all you would know this and wouldnt be complaining and it's an MMO it's meant to be played cooperatively they're not to make purely solo play more rewarding than group play, they're incentivising people to work together hence why every quest doesnt have markers and FORCES you to ask other people.

Yeah, I don't mind that it's not solo friendly. I mean, I can se an issue for a level 2 DPSer trying to get a group these days, but the train in my experience has been pretty open. Especially if you have a healer or RDM. Those can make a meaningful contribution to the train at any level simply by raising and healing other people. IMO, the community banding together to do that has been one of the bright spots of Eureka.