Released a broken Eureka

[Vivi_Bushido]

I would of them just gave us a book, do x fates, kill x things, have dailies on them like singing clusters in hw then diadem 3.0 Least in that way you are helping people clear content for the first time, bringing back life on your world, so people are not alone that just happen want to use a few fates to help level, and like the speed up. (I like yo kai doing this as well, helps other people too)

If that's what you prefer then you are entitled to feel that way, as I am entitled to feel that Eureka is a better direction. I personally liked Diadem, but maybe I just fall into a minority that does.

I know how PoTD works tyvm. it is either you are to understanding me what I am talking about, or you are twisting what I say on purpose for some unknown reason. Do not tell me I am wrong on something I am right about, I know what I am talking about so I'll just hit the ball back to you and say "no you are incorrect"

Starting to feel like I'm playing volleyball with a "know it all" now. You started this "no you are incorrect" game with this quote here:

People value their time differently then you I guess, but you are incorrect, also you must forgot what it was like when it was new with 1-50. Very frustrating having 40-50 min runs, wiping to mistakes that is made from bad decisions. Also when you wipe you where done, no redos, no /sh raise <pos> I never had to hp once in diadem 3.0, dying is meaningless. Also you had less control over damage control in PoTD. In diadem 3.0 only your self is to blame, in PoTD it cam be completely one person's fault for the wipe and out your control completely to try salvage it. No matter how you slice it, PoTD is harder and more interesting then diadem 3.0

Not really sure how you can throw the ball back to me and not expect the ball to come back?? Seems a bit unfair.

Invalid comparison. Item A is supposed to be accessible by everyone to give people something to do that does not like raiding. Item B was meant for pure challenge and prestige. They even said that and the reason they had a scoreboard. You could very well solo it, being the first to solo to 200 is a great feat. you are saying being in an airplane 10k meters is the same as being on the ground because you are still on earth.. .. i can't believe you pulled this.

Ugh... the number of times you throw around the word invalid just because you disagree with something. What is this Item A and B stuff? I thought I was having a discussion, not on trial. Both are meant to be accessible by everyone, and everything is accessible by everyone. I fail to see where you're going with this point?

[Crescents]

1. No it did not, it did not require as much time IN ONE SITTING to progress on it, I was not talking about total time spent. I rather do HW/ARR relics, where I can progress a bit of a time in one sitting, and have different alt methods on progressing on them.

I'm sorry, but im starting to think you never did relic progression pre nerfs because it was ages before anyone was able to complete the unidentified grind whereas again Eureka multiple people had relics the second day so how is that grind worse again this is a break from the monotony this is finally something different, no its not perfect, but maybe stop condemning it after you've only spent a minimal amount of time when its a giant leap forward as far as relic grinds go.

It is too enough to judge. The design is a blatant flaw if you sit here and tell me it is not enough time to judge, and it is the same thing over and over again anyway, wth really? It's not, because the comparisons your making are kind of silly if you had enough time to experience the extent of the content and if you got near max level you wouldnt be as flippant to condemn it. The things you're saying is something I would of said the first time I went in there, and I actually progressed through the content and it changed my mind.

Invalid argument, plus they knew people did not like diadem, they flat out said it was not going to be diadem and it will be new and innvoative, they did not give us that. So they knew what people wanted, so indirectly, yes they did have player feedback on it. No, it's not I shouldnt have have to read another thread in its entirety just to deserve the right to give you my opinion.

... I really can't comment on this.. it is trying to relate points unrelated.
Girl, you sat there and accused me of being a white knight, you were upset over people insulting you, and you turned around and labelled me in a way that was clearly intended to be insulting, it's kind of hypocritical and I would like an explanation.

In the end they did not live up to "it is going to be new and innovative" They said it would be diadem with an independant levelling system like POTD which last I checked it is. it also is soloable, day 1 a few people were saying how they got more xp per kill on mobs solo which I can't confirm because I never went solo but it does sound like SE living up to expectations but people party because its more effective again, like POTD and just because you dont understand something doesnt mean it's bad.

The way you're wording things to me is becoming increasingly aggressive and I'd like to think I have been nothing but respectful and asked you questions but I can see this discussion is going nowhere I dont think there will be anything to be gained from debating further I'm going to step away but I hope SE fixes Eureka to a point where you can like it.

[Vstarstruck]

If that's what you prefer then you are entitled to feel that way, as I am entitled to feel that Eureka is a better direction. I personally liked Diadem, but maybe I just fall into a minority that does.

Right now it is a worse direction but the potential to be in the right direction is there. However it is hard to see with the unfinished state they released it in, given the delays they put on it. SE does not have a good track record so my view on a good future for this content doesn't exist at the moment.

Starting to feel like I'm playing volleyball with a "know it all" now. You started this "no you are incorrect" game with this quote here:



Not really sure how you can throw the ball back to me and not expect the ball to come back?? Seems a bit unfair.




Ugh... the number of times you throw around the word invalid just because you disagree with something. What is this Item A and B stuff? I thought I was having a discussion, not on trial. Both are meant to be accessible by everyone, and everything is accessible by everyone. I fail to see where you're going with this point?

All this last bit does not admit seeing the main point or not, and that is 1-50 is much different then now, and if one remembers how 31-50 was back when the last floor was 50. You keep telling me I am wrong when the issue is with you, either not understanding what I am talking about, or trying to skew facts to make your point look better. Call me what you want but these Ad hominems is not helping your case.

For the item a and b thing really? item A was in reference to relic concepts, what we got in HW and ARR, casual content for people to do that do not like raiding, but could get something on the level of a raid reward (not exactly the same till final months of the expansion but close enough to warrant work on, Basically they could have some step where it becomes 265 by using 3 coins from the second 24 man coming up basically 3 week gating for it, something on the lines of that but atm.. it is hard convincing some to do this content that do not like it at all, some can ofc, but there is others that will not touch it in the current state since it is viewed what you have to do, not worth the reward since casual players had access to 1- 360 weapon the same day diadem was released. I think this was a very poor planning release date/oversight on SE dev part.) while item B was referring to PoTD's concepts. It is just a different way of trying to explain you can't compare the 2 for soloing purposes as they are meant for complete different things. It is like saying in my right hand you have this, in my left hand you have something else, then explain how they are not related.

I'm sorry, but im starting to think you never did relic progression pre nerfs because it was ages before anyone was able to complete the unidentified grind whereas again Eureka multiple people had relics the second day so how is that grind worse again this is a break from the monotony this is finally something different, no its not perfect, but maybe stop condemning it after you've only spent a minimal amount of time when its a giant leap forward as far as relic grinds go.

Beast tribes, 4 a day, one of each type, a day...
I want different options, I didn't have to sit for 1-2 hours at a time to progress unlike in SB's relic. Again keep in mind I am not talking about TOTAL time it takes, but how much time you need to spend to get some progression, and that is much higher for SB's one. I rather have short sessions , longer time to achieve, then long periods of grinding, short overall time to achieve. This is the first time we did not have alternatives. I can't enter diadem 3.0 and get progress to elemental exp or relic unless I spend 30 mins +, to do a tribe while afking may of been 10 mins each. This is why I do not monster grind spam no lifing it like those that got them in 1 or 2 days. I afk there while I follow my SO though fate train and play as needed. I can't keep jamming buttons every 1-3 sec for 40 min + to get progress on something.

It is too enough to judge. The design is a blatant flaw if you sit here and tell me it is not enough time to judge, and it is the same thing over and over again anyway, wth really? It's not, because the comparisons your making are kind of silly if you had enough time to experience the extent of the content and if you got near max level you wouldnt be as flippant to condemn it. The things you're saying is something I would of said the first time I went in there, and I actually progressed through the content and it changed my mind.

That is your experience, not mine, don't force your requirements on me. I know what I like and dislike. I do not need to play it more to see if I like it or not. (tbh every day I enter I find a new annoyance on it, the last one is fates dying too quickly)
Want to know what you are truely doing to me? here you go:

The Eureka Defense: A Short Parody

Eureka Apologist: "Yo dude, have you heard about the new game that is all the rage (pun intended) on the interwebs?"

Self-respecting Individual: "No man, what is it?"

Eureka Apologist: "Punching yourself in the face!"

Self-respecting Individual: "That doesn't sound much fun to be honest, man."

Eureka Apologist: "Oh come on, at least try it before dismissing it!"

Self-respecting Individual: "Sigh, okay..." *punches himself* "Ouch dude, this is not fun in the slightest!"

Eureka Apologist: "lol man! you say that because you are doing it wrong!"

Self-respecting Individual: "Wrong how?"

Eureka Apologist: "You gotta do 3 quick jabs to your chin before you are ready for a big punch to your eye socket, you can't just zerg punch yourself without any thought to it, derp"

Self-respecting Individual: "Are you serious?"

Eureka Apologist: "Absolutely man, how can you dismiss this game without even playing it properly? Don't be a hater!"

Self-respecting Individual: "Sigh... all right, but stop bugging me after this if I don't like it" *punches himself again"

Self-respecting Individual: "Oh my god dude, now my face hurt all over. I guess the punches to my chin did help me not to feel the one to my eye that munch since my face is all numb now, but this still is the worst idea ever."

Eureka Apologist: "lol man, you barely got started, this gets a lot of fun after the first few hours! You get so numb it feels good!"

Self-respecting Individual: "Nope, not doing this for a few hours, my face already hurts enough now thank you. This sounded stupid from the beginning and I honestly regret going with it until now."

Eureka Apologist: "lololol look at you jumping on the face-punching hate bandwagon. Back in my day people worked hard to feel all numb and fuzzy, now you people only want instant gratification."

--------------

Sorry, but this is exactly how I see it in this thread lol

Invalid argument, plus they knew people did not like diadem, they flat out said it was not going to be diadem and it will be new and innvoative, they did not give us that. So they knew what people wanted, so indirectly, yes they did have player feedback on it. No, it's not I shouldnt have have to read another thread in its entirety just to deserve the right to give you my opinion.

You are giving me nothing to reply here... all I can say is you are not addressing what I said. I will word it in a different way I guess. Look, if they know enough to say "It is not going to be like diadem" They know the feedback on what Eureka(diadem 3.0) would be, and they released it ANYWAY! Has nothing to do with asking you to read other threads.

... I really can't comment on this.. it is trying to relate points unrelated.
Girl, you sat there and accused me of being a white knight, you were upset over people insulting you, and you turned around and labelled me in a way that was clearly intended to be insulting, it's kind of hypocritical and I would like an explanation.

Can't respond to this kind of red herring/Ad hominem. I looked in the past posts and see a confusion though, I will point it out here what I was talking about:
You said this:

it gets annoying seeing people trying to defend it, annoying to see SE white knights insulting people for disliking it. I'm not a "white knight" whatever that is, I've acknowledged Eureka has its flaws its far from perfect but it is not broken and I believe it'll be better when they adjust future updates with feedback that they now have and im sorry just because people insult you (which ive not done) doesnt even in the slightest mean the content is broken.

I was mainly referring to this last part " I believe it'll be better when they adjust future updates with feedback that they now have and im sorry just because people insult you (which ive not done) doesnt even in the slightest mean the content is broken." People insulting one another has nothing to do with one's view if content is broken or not. I am not sure why you said this at all. I do not think this little sub discussion should be referenced in future discussions, as it seems the risk of confusion and misunderstanding will skyrocket.

In the end they did not live up to "it is going to be new and innovative" They said it would be diadem with an independant levelling system like POTD which last I checked it is. it also is soloable, day 1 a few people were saying how they got more xp per kill on mobs solo which I can't confirm because I never went solo but it does sound like SE living up to expectations but people party because its more effective again, like POTD and just because you dont understand something doesnt mean it's bad.

The way you're wording things to me is becoming increasingly aggressive and I'd like to think I have been nothing but respectful and asked you questions but I can see this discussion is going nowhere I dont think there will be anything to be gained from debating further I'm going to step away but I hope SE fixes Eureka to a point where you can like it.

I guess trying to use logic to my best ability is aggressive to you. This last comment is anything but respectful, the bold part, stuff like that is simply best not said. Things would be better if you are able to debate only points made. (this post may have errors to the great length, I need a bit of time to refine it, hard to see if it is organized with the way you reply to things, ps I do find it not respectful when people throw fallacies at me, I wonder if that confused some people up to this point. If someone is able to respect me in full and truly take the time to read what I say, the need to pull a fallacy for anything would be nonexistent.)

Update, 2 posts, I need more time.

Ok there we go, I think I got everything. So far you been the least insulting then anyone else being "I like Eureka" I find debating with you fun.
SO said:
Someone decent in the crazy forums. Nice
I am happy. ty Vivi_Bushido

I think I learned something from this, having a proper debate one can learn more prospective and I do like understanding others thought processes more. When things are masked behind so much fallacy and insults I can't make heads or tails what is going on. I just hope you understand me better and I sorted out the confusions even if you do not reply again. Hope others can take from your example and give me fun like you have done. First time I felt like this on the OF.

[Tridus]

The Protean Crystals replaces tombstones for relic exchange currencies and the Anemos Crystals exist to provide a little RNG in the amount of Protean you received. They already confirmed that they're addressing the ridiculous turn in problem. And it has nothing to do with being really bad at testing their own game. I'm sorry but that just sounds like useless whinnying. Is it perfect no? Whatever is perfect upon release? Absolutely nothing.

There's a big difference between expecting perfection and expecting basic UI features. The lack of a batch turn in mechanism is an amateur mistake that should have been corrected the second anyone got far enough in testing to try to turn in more than 10 crystals.

I mean, this game has a lot of glaring UI problems. The process of buying a tomestone weapon is ridiculous. At some point there's no excuse for continuing to make basic UI mistakes except that they are understaffed or don't care, neither of which is an acceptable excuse.

[Remedi]

There's a big difference between expecting perfection and expecting basic UI features. The lack of a batch turn in mechanism is an amateur mistake that should have been corrected the second anyone got far enough in testing to try to turn in more than 10 crystals.

I mean, this game has a lot of glaring UI problems. The process of buying a tomestone weapon is ridiculous. At some point there's no excuse for continuing to make basic UI mistakes except that they are understaffed or don't care, neither of which is an acceptable excuse.

Imho this game needs more UI patches than actual content, but I guess ppl won't like it that much.
Still you can't really design things if the entire system is castrated as such.
Long term wise fixing UI and the core system is a better dev time investment

[Vstarstruck]

Imho this game needs more UI patches than actual content, but I guess ppl won't like it that much.
Still you can't really design things if the entire system is castrated as such.
Long term wise fixing UI and the core system is a better dev time investment

Would been much better investment then the one that went into this diadem 3.0

[Zumi]

I seen a lot of lv4s in fate train parties. Just shout 'lfg nm' someone will almost always invite you. Just don't say your lvl when shouting if you are lower.

[Solarra]

Just don't say your lvl when shouting if you are lower.

I'm not sure that is good advice. I think people will be more inclined to look after you if they know your level in advance. I've even had high level players come across the map to collect me when I've joined a party (much appreciated, too). The FFXIV community really is something special in that respect because I've seen a lot of high level players helping those just starting out.

However, I think it's better to be honest. If people don't want low level players with them, then they're hardly going to be happy with someone trying to sneak in.