Released a broken Eureka

[Vstarstruck]

It's been about a week and a half, and the majority of players in an instance are probably lvl 13 and up. XI didn't have just one job to level in the same way you only have elemental level in Eureka, nor was it possible to get that far that fast through no-lifing. There also eventually was level sync, and even as early as WOTG they had to start adding solo friendly measures to leveling. You can't really defend this system.

Now you know why I been calling some people white knights. There is no reason to defend such flaws outside that motivation.

Uh, low levels don't "contribute nothing." If they contributed nothing, then a full team of low levels wouldn't be able to achieve gold participation in high level NMs. Healing isn't based on level or your Magia. Red Mage being able to fully revive an entire party with ease is still contributing. (Even high levels die in NMs) They will only deal less damage to NM, but participation is also based on healing. Will they get one hit by mechanics of NM? Possibly, but if they know how to dodge, their chances vastly improve. I remember doing Serket while under level and I never took damage the entire NM.

Players just seem to think only high levels offer anything to the party, when it isn't entirely true.

You are stating untrue stuff. A low level party is leeching off the higher level players that it is meant for. They are not helping to kill it at all, just doing enough to get those points. It is better then jamming one button for 3+hrs getting carpal tunnel and I do it knowing full well I am leeching, I only do so because I want to play and talk to my SO. Don't sit there and tell me doing 100 or less damage per move is "participation"

Has nothing to do with level sync. The OP stated their friend was being kicked from NM parties because of their level. You do not need to sync your level to share exp for NMs.

Since an entire party of level 10s fighting a lvl 19 NM can still achieve gold participation, there is no reason at all in the DESIGN that forces people to only play with high levels for NMs. It is purely player choice, not a flaw in Eureka's design.

Now, grinding on mobs for exp, then yes, the flaw is with Eureka's design because you need to be with a party your level or you will not get exp. However, the OP stated NM train.

Nope it is SE's fault, it is the design choice result of rushing something unfinished out. (Also I do realize they delayed it, and the irony of saying they rushed something despite delays but it is what literally happened, this content was not ready to be released. This is why SE needs to start management tools like contingency plans better. There should been some earlier stage someone should went "we can't make this work go to plan B. What we see now with diadem 3.0 is bad management, bad planning, and bad testing, while trying to force this out anyway in an unfinished state.)

[Crescents]

This isnt a flaw with Eureka anyone whos been playing MMOs for longer than six months recognizes this behavior its not an inherent problem with the content it's a problem with people only wanting the best groups to get done the fastest, I'm max elemental level with several relics and honestly you can find a party you just have to be willing to look, sure it'll take sometime it'll happen but it will.

I'm really struggling to understand how it's SE's fault people cant get parties, it isn't, all SE can do is add incentives to take lower levelled players but thats not SE's responsibility its the players to stop being selfish theres even ways around just spamming shout chat 'til you get an invite.

You could ask any FCs/LSs you're a part of or put up a PF beforehand to find players around your level to go with there's plenty trust me. This community needs to be stop being so determined to hate this content and actually put some effort in to make it work for them, because its sure as kupo better than another monotonous tome grind.

[Krotoan]

This isnt a flaw with Eureka anyone whos been playing MMOs for longer than six months recognizes this behavior its not an inherent problem with the content it's a problem with people only wanting the best groups to get done the fastest, I'm max elemental level with several relics and honestly you can find a party you just have to be willing to look, sure it'll take sometime it'll happen but it will.

I'm really struggling to understand how it's SE's fault people cant get parties, it isn't, all SE can do is add incentives to take lower levelled players but thats not SE's responsibility its the players to stop being selfish theres even ways around just spamming shout chat 'til you get an invite.

You could ask any FCs/LSs you're a part of or put up a PF beforehand to find players around your level to go with there's plenty trust me. This community needs to be stop being so determined to hate this content and actually put some effort in to make it work for them, because its sure as kupo better than another monotonous tome grind.

It is SE's objective to make content engaging for as many players as possible. Excluding people who aren't skilled at party forming or don't want to stand around in an instance yelling for 20 minutes isn't productive. Especially when the rest of the game has a "pick the thing you want to do, wait for it to start" mechanic.

I don't know why you think putting the onus to make something accessible is on the player.
The fact they COULD have made SOMETHING to help those people out, even designed the system better to make it beneficial to pick up other players besides similar level players is a failing.
I'm NOT determined to hate it, I want it to be friendly to everyone and it wont be. I've got mine, but it wasn't very fun and I don't see it being fun in the future. I've got suggestions on how to improve it and telling the company "it's ok, the people should just deal with it" is very selfish.

Why are you so determined to let obviously restrictive and short lived things stand when they could be better?

I get you enjoy it and like I said earlier, have at it! Grind those levels and get that gear! .. but people are going to be left behind and feeling crappy about it and it could be fixed without ANY detriment to the experience you already had. It might even make it so more people are playing for the next step and you'll get that social interaction in spades.

[Crescents]

It is SE's objective to make content engaging for as many players as possible. Excluding people who aren't skilled at party forming or don't want to stand around in an instance yelling for 20 minutes isn't productive.

Somehow I have a feeling you havent done any other relics. SE hands you more than enough things maybe instead of calling things broken after twenty minutes of trying of anything that isnt explicit handholding, you get out of it what you put into it also "skilled at party forming?" because its soooo hard to ask for a party....

"I don't know why you think putting the onus to make something accessible is on the player. " I'm not, SE has made it so the players have every opportunity to help each other out, plenty of times I've had other people in my instances explain things to me help me out if it doesnt happen right away keep trying, you wont accomplish anything if you give up.

I've got suggestions on how to improve it and telling the company "it's ok, the people should just deal with it" is very selfish. This is the first introduction of this content, think of it as a beta its here in its current place is for players to try a rough version of the finished product so they can know from the players what does or doesnt work and make it more enjoyable in the future just writing the entire thing off because oh its broken is also selfish and doesnt help anyone yourself included.

Why are you so determined to let obviously restrictive and short lived things stand when they could be better? because ive yet to see fair criticism from people who havent given it a fair chance just people who tried a few hours and gave up because omg its haaaard.

I get you enjoy it and like I said earlier, have at it! Grind those levels and get that gear! .. I don't actually I have plenty of complaints but I see how calling it broken isnt constructive, and it gets annoying seeing a weeks worth of people throwing childish temper tantrums.

This is also very obviously worlds better than "hey lets run ARF 77 times" and the things im seeing people complain about is things that are fixed with 10% more effort, and hey if you dont want to put that effort in thats your decision it's optional content AND its likely to be heavily nerfed like literally every other relic ever.

[Astral145]

People wanted to play XI but didn't want to sub for the actual game itself. Lo and behold, we get a poor man's XI with more flair but less fun.

I think (hope) SE will improve it dramatically. I can't stomach it as it is right now.

I wish FFXI was on PS4 I would love to play the game. I use to play a game called White Knight Chronicles. The story was ok but the online game was awesome... You would farm for hours with friends trying to get rare mats that helped to upgrade all types of gear from +1 to +20. I really miss that open world feel and farming mats. Eureka is a good start but i really hope for more.

[Niraye]

heres how eurka works right now that i noted when i went to level.
Follow NM train : no matter what level you go with you lvl fast. you get exp from EVERY fate.
some parties could give two poos for you being lvl 1 or 2 they'll still take you, why you dont inhibit what theyre doing at all.
next up, they level faster then say grinding.
lastly those who kick the low lvls saying they shouldn't be leaches well what else are they supposed to do the high lvls kill they're fates the minute they pop in under a minute.
and then you have people like you who say they shouldnt be there in the first place.. im sorry but low lvls should be with everyone because if highlvls can kill the low lvls fates. low lvls can be at the high lvl fates <3 unless you back off those low lvl fates and leave those to them.

[Krotoan]

Somehow I have a feeling you havent done any other relics. SE hands you more than enough things maybe instead of calling things broken after twenty minutes of trying of anything that isnt explicit handholding, you get out of it what you put into it also "skilled at party forming?" because its soooo hard to ask for a party....

My LUX begs to differ. It's not hard for me. I have no problem bothering people for a party. But why should I have to? The rest of the game doesn't make me stand there and beg and it was one of the things I didn't enjoy about FFXI. Why put it back in the game?

"I don't know why you think putting the onus to make something accessible is on the player. " I'm not, SE has made it so the players have every opportunity to help each other out, plenty of times I've had other people in my instances explain things to me help me out if it doesnt happen right away keep trying, you wont accomplish anything if you give up.

And I'd be glad to help people out, but by blaming the players for not making parties and helping lowbies out you ARE making it their fault. Literally.

I've got suggestions on how to improve it and telling the company "it's ok, the people should just deal with it" is very selfish. This is the first introduction of this content, think of it as a beta its here in its current place is for players to try a rough version of the finished product so they can know from the players what does or doesnt work and make it more enjoyable in the future just writing the entire thing off because oh its broken is also selfish and doesnt help anyone yourself included.

When have I ever written the whole thing off? Are you thinking of someone else? I'm doing it! I'm level 15 and I just have to get to 19 to finish my relic. I'm suggesting improvements. SE has never simply removed content because of complaints and will likely NOT scrap eureka. I'm suggesting improvements though because SURE it's beta.. then you take the feeback , which is what I'm giving , and make improvements. Selfish is telling everyone else who has experienced it and found it trying that they just need to suck it up because it shouldn't be changed.

Why are you so determined to let obviously restrictive and short lived things stand when they could be better? because ive yet to see fair criticism from people who havent given it a fair chance just people who tried a few hours and gave up because omg its haaaard.

Once again, I'm nearly done with it. It's not HARD. It's frustratingly drawn out and when you circumvent that part it's boring and has superfluous mechanics.

I get you enjoy it and like I said earlier, have at it! Grind those levels and get that gear! .. I don't actually I have plenty of complaints but I see how calling it broken isnt constructive, and it gets annoying seeing a weeks worth of people throwing childish temper tantrums.

This is also very obviously worlds better than "hey lets run ARF 77 times" and the things im seeing people complain about is things that are fixed with 10% more effort, and hey if you dont want to put that effort in thats your decision it's optional content AND its likely to be heavily nerfed like literally every other relic ever.

[/QUOTE]
Show me one thing I've said that's childish. I've gone through great lengths to make every bit of input I've posted be constructive, well explained and civil. Calling something broken when it's broken and offering no solutions is still feedback and valuable, however I've also been offering alternatives. "Don't like it don't do it" is not a good solution. A true dev hears "This was very unattractive to me" and asks "why?". "wait till it's nerfed" is a very large cop out. As I've stated, calmly and distinctly, it isn't difficult to do but it could be so much more engaging if some changes were made.


I have a feeling you're replying to me but lumping me in with some of the more... colorful opposition. I am not them and will never think or argue like them. I will however continue to present my problems and argue that the content is not very welcoming or engaging.

[Aylis]

I wouldn't say its broken per say. Its more about....this is what happens when trying to mix the older style of MMO's with the newer style's, the past and present conflicting with each other. In games like EverQuest and Final Fantasy XI, the style worked. Players had a large pick of open world zones spanning the entire leveling spectrum and each zone having its own thing going on. Here they tried to cram nearly an entire older MMO's style of content in one single zone and call it a day. It might have worked better if it was made as a series of zones. Here's the level 1-10 zone, now here's the level 11-20 zone, and so on and so on.

[Raven2014]

I have many issues with Eureka, but the whole lowbie/newbie is definitely not one of them. The whole argument of "SE should do something because ..." is an age old argument that goes no where. Some of you are talking like this is the first or only time this is an issue:

- Primal Farm Party cut out newbies.
- Savage Clear Party cut out newbies.
- High DPS Party leave out newbies.
- Early adopting crafters trying to corner the Market.


And many many many more, this is not something unique to Eureka, or something even unique to this game. Want to group with people of the same level as you are, be it style/skill/progress have always been a thing in EVERY MMO since the very first MMO came out. However for what it's worth, my main is at lvl19 and I just started 'casually' lvling my alt in Eureka, I just hit lvl6 tonight. And you know what, I have never have trouble find party. I was in a group that was killing Cyclop, Pale Rider ...etc... today and get gold on them.

Am I progressing as fast as my main on the first week? No. But I'm also admitting the fact my alt missed the original rush fervor and I'm ok with that. It takes "a bit" more afford, it progresses "a little" slower. But reading some of the complains here you would think people claiming it's impossible to progress as a lowbie now, which is not true. Tbh, this is the same as the usual cry you hear about content clears. I have always been playing casually, sometime I clear very early in the content circle, sometime I lag behind and had to try to get a late clear. While the latter is always slower than the former, but you know ... it was never impossible, that's why the "OMG everyone moved ahead and no one wanted to help me now, this is bad design!!!" cry never did sit well with me. Help yourself, the content is only around 2 weeks old, progressing through it is still completely viable with just a "tiny little bit extra" afford on your part. Don't be that guy crying in chat about "OMG EVERYONE ON A MOUNT AND LEAVING ME BEHIND QQ!!".

[Crescents]

My LUX begs to differ. It's not hard for me. I have no problem bothering people for a party. But why should I have to? .

This is essentially what party finder is, begging for a party its only more efficient and you can be specific unless you want SE to add separate instances for different levels say only 1-10 can join one and 11-20 could join another when we queue in initially, thats quite literally the only thing SE can do besides add incentives it's up to the playerbase to work together and if we did split instances one would be dead and the other wouldnt as someone whos actually created many many NM parties I always add lower players if theres nobody else, contribution is contribution so the issues you're talking about arent present you're just giving up very quickly.

And I'd be glad to help people out, but by blaming the players for not making parties and helping lowbies out you ARE making it their fault. Literally. Because it is, you're acting like Eureka is unplayable when even with the slightest effort myself and many others have gotten along just fine, its a time sink yes (isn't every relic though? and if you've done a lux you should be aware of that)

I'm suggesting improvements. SE has never simply removed content because of complaints and will likely NOT scrap eureka. I'm suggesting improvements though because SURE it's beta.. You havent said a single constructive or helpful thing in any reply to me so far except that it's so awful and broken and terrible and SE needs to fix it but I've yet to see you bring up any alternatives or fixes.

Once again, I'm nearly done with it. It's not HARD. It's frustratingly drawn out and when you circumvent that part it's boring and has superfluous mechanics. Sure it's boring what relic isnt? heck, what grind isnt, its a timesink because its designed to be accessible for all players thats why it is nothing like the zodiac weapons very first step, again compared to the anima progression its a giant step forward.

Show me one thing I've said that's childish. I've gone through great lengths to make every bit of input I've posted be constructive, well explained and civil. Calling something broken when it's broken and offering no solutions is still feedback and valuable,
I actually wasnt talking about you specifically you'll notice in my original post you've so helpfully quoted I said people are not you it was referring to the people rage unsubbing which again is their pejorative but no, complaining and whining about how broken it is without explanations or alternatives isnt helpful in the slightest

it's like walking into starbucks saying "the coffee sucks I hate it here" isn't helpful I'm responding to what you said in relation to my posts im not doing a deep dive on your post history.

Also something constructive would be like, say they should add a daily quest from Krile that makes you kill X amount of mobs or NM and it'll give you an amount of xp and crystals to speed things up, or adding a level gap bonus similar to the mentor/sprout one that currently exists Eureka in it's current state isnt broken by any stretch of the imagination but its not perfect and I can guarentee if you formed a pf before going in it would fill in under ten minutes and all your issues would be gone, people are more than happy to help out low players. Again speaking from personal experience.