Housing Suggestions

[MizArai]

I'm suspecting it'd free up about a third of the housing market.

There is no way.

It should be obvious that SE should do that, and that I have to actually state such....

Well, with some of your ideas so far, it was a valid question.

If by RMT you mean Real Money Transaction - that should NEVER be encouraged because that's how the gil farmers make their money, rip off accounts, and do a whole host of not good things.

I wasn't encouraging it. Just stating a well known fact.

Give me an actual example on something that matters, and not some weird bug that's basically about placing daisies in your house. Otherwise your point is frivolous.

I gave you a real example of people having alts on friends list. You said that should get fixed, then said people should be able to use houses to pass stuff to alts, you apparently meant they should be able to use FC chest to do it, except I have alts in multiple FCs, so to me, that's a super silly idea. Especially when you consider that most people don't have access to most items in their FC's chest.

If the existing stock gets 2-3 wards per neighborhood freed up (I think it's probably higher) because of forcing release, it's still going to help the situation because that's adding in 8-12 wards back into the pool.

I really don't understand how me saying 100-200 houses would be reclaimed and you translated that into 2-3 wards somehow turned into 8-12 wards worth of houses being added back in. There is no way there's 480-720 houses that would get reclaimed per server from people owning multiple houses. I know of 3 people with multiple houses. All of them have 2 personal houses. With housing being a huge interest of mine, I often talk to people about housing. If you assume that about 5% of homeowners have 2 houses, then you'd be reclaiming 216 houses with your no grandfathering take all the extra houses away stance.

That and SE needs to start adding more and more wards.

Instance housing is not the solution here because that's going to put far more stress on the server than you think it will, and have load times that aren't basically instant because the server will have to fetch the instanced house from disk to load into memory, rather than just having the entire ward already in memory and being able to quickly work with the ward.

If you can't argue the technical side, please stop.

Instanced housing would actually help a lot, since it would only put a load on the server when people were inside the instance of the house. (And technically we already have instanced housing, it's called apartments. And it's probably why they said they'll look into trying to make small, medium, and large apartments because that would be easier on the servers than continuing to add more and more wards like some people want.) I think you're very confused about the technical side of things, so I'll just save you any further embarrassment by not pointing out further flaws about this.

Your math sucks, we're at 4*18 = 72 wards total.

Um, look at your equation. You did 4*18 because there are 18 WARDS in each district, so we're at 18 wards. My math is fine. Thanks for proving that you just want to fight though. If you must see my math though here goes:

Total Wards Needed = Total Houses Needed/(4*60)

NA has at least 8 servers with over 10k "active" players. If you do a base line of 12,000 needed houses (10,000 for players, 2,000 for FCs), then you end up with needing 50 wards. Like I said before, that still wouldn't be enough for Balmung, Leviathan, Greg, Cactuar, or Excalibur. It might be enough for Hyperion, Behemoth, and Sargatanas. Though the smaller servers would be swimming in extra houses.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

That and SE needs to start adding more and more wards.

Instance housing is not the solution here because that's going to put far more stress on the server than you think it will, and have load times that aren't basically instant because the server will have to fetch the instanced house from disk to load into memory, rather than just having the entire ward already in memory and being able to quickly work with the ward.

This goes to demonstrate you have very little understanding on the subjects you speak on. Instanced housing operates on the basis house plotting only load if an active character were in the location. Otherwise, they remain compressed data, severely limiting strain on the servers. Comparatively, current wards function akin to City-States. All eighteen remain active indefinitely, and must render each of the thirty plots and their maximum potential limits. Unlike the former, this constant activity places considerably more strain on the servers. Your solution actually makes things worse—a sentiment corroborated by the developers themselves hence "server limitation" issues and why they don't just add additional wards willy-nilly. Meanwhile, they outright said they could double Apartments on a whim.

[Almagnus1]

Instanced housing operates on the basis house plotting only load if an active character were in the location. Otherwise, they remain compressed data, severely limiting strain on the servers. Comparatively, current wards function akin to City-States. All eighteen remain active indefinitely, and must render each of the thirty plots and their maximum potential limits. Unlike the former, this constant activity places considerably more strain on the servers.

Instanced housing transfers the memory pressure to I/O pressure, because the server has to fetch data from disk, decompress it, and then send it out - which means instanced vs wards boils down to trading off some memory pressure on the server for additional I/O pressure with data retrieval.

When looking at a single person, it's pretty obvious that the instance housing wins, but when you start looking at having a thousand or so people, having a ward already in memory and staying there while the server is up completely removes the I/O operations from the equation because that happened during server boot - so the disk/DB I/O can be spent on things like what the players are doing, and other things to improve that experience.

It's all a tradeoff, and this is where instanced housing falls apart, and it's why the wards are actually the better solution for mass players.

But, if you really don't want to continue with the technical discussion, I can stop right here because I really don't want to lose more people (or worse) have the few people that have declared me to be wrong start also accusing me of technical babble because my technical ability is so far above theirs it's not even funny.

[Almagnus1]

There is no way.

Then show me your data that disproves my claim.

I gave you a real example of people having alts on friends list.

Which I said should be removed.

then said people should be able to use houses to pass stuff to alts

So they wouldn't need to create FCs to do this.

[QUOTE=MizArai;4576967]except I have alts in multiple FCs, so to me, that's a super silly idea.[QUOTE=MizArai;4576967]

Which means you're both part of the problem and incapable at looking at this objectively.

Especially when you consider that most people don't have access to most items in their FC's chest.

Which is why we need another alternative for account wide storage.

I really don't understand how me saying 100-200 houses would be reclaimed and you translated that into 2-3 wards somehow turned into 8-12 wards worth of houses being added back in. There is no way there's 480-720 houses that would get reclaimed per server from people owning multiple houses. I know of 3 people with multiple houses. All of them have 2 personal houses. With housing being a huge interest of mine, I often talk to people about housing. If you assume that about 5% of homeowners have 2 houses, then you'd be reclaiming 216 houses with your no grandfathering take all the extra houses away stance.

It's because you're being ambiguous with your numbers and I called you out on it.

Instanced housing would actually help a lot, since it would only put a load on the server when people were inside the instance of the house.

No it won't, not on a massive scale. You're trading additional space in server memory for increased server I/O... which can lead to other issues. Downside of server design.

Um, look at your equation. You did 4*18 because there are 18 WARDS in each district, so we're at 18 wards. My math is fine. Thanks for proving that you just want to fight though. If you must see my math though here goes:

Four neighborhoods, 18 wards each, a total of 72 wards.

Whoever said we needed to add wards to ALL housing neighbor hoods at the same time?

If a neighborhood isn't as popular as the others... why add more space to it that's not going to get used?

[Mahrze]

If a neighborhood isn't as popular as the others... why add more space to it that's not going to get used?

And why focus on one housing area? A house of any size in any ward is of equal worthvalue, not of equal valueinterest. Don't confuse these please.

[Ruf]

And why focus on one housing area? A house of any size in any ward is of equal value, not of equal interest. Don't confuse these please.

While i agree that all areas need same amount of wards, i disagree to say that any size in any ward is equal value, thats what we want but its not the case... (ie: plots houses facing bad & ugly directions & limited land size, not to say ressources of mediums & larges houses,,, but fact is, without a dumb restriction that bane most of everybody everyone could build a mansion if they did/do put enough efforts in it) 109/10

[Bourne_Endeavor]

It's all a tradeoff, and this is where instanced housing falls apart, and it's why the wards are actually the better solution for mass players.

Since you apparently are so well versed in "technical babble," riddle me why every other MMO presently on the market, many with a comparable playerbase have all adopted instance houses and acknowledged its superior ease? Housing like FFXIV hasn't been relevant for almost a decade now... coincidentally what game is still using code from a decade ago? Regardless, I see you conveniently ignored my mention of Apartments, you know, our actual example of instanced housing in FFXIV. Kind of peculiar those can be doubled "as needed" yet by your assessment, instanced housing causes more strain.

But, if you really don't want to continue with the technical discussion, I can stop right here because I really don't want to lose more people (or worse) have the few people that have declared me to be wrong start also accusing me of technical babble because my technical ability is so far above theirs it's not even funny.

[Mahrze]

While i agree that all areas need same amount of wards, i disagree to say that any size in any ward is equal value, thats what we want but its not the case... (ie: plots houses facing bad & ugly directions & limited land size, not to say ressources of mediums & larges houses,,, but fact is, without a dumb restriction that bane most of everybody everyone could build a mansion if they did/do put enough efforts in it) 109/10

I agree with your sentiment, but that is more along the lines of a improvement in design (which is sorely needed) than the value of it. A house is a house. Sure you'll like some and not others depending on how each has its layout but the thing that is key to fixing the housing issue is its degree of availability, not the "feng shui" of it.

To add clarity on my poor usage of English, the houses are all of the same worth, not the same value/interest.

[Ruf]

I think your english is fine, yet i still disagree with your so called degree of availability making any size in any ward an equal value (& yes i understand what you are saying i halfly agree with that sentiment too as homeless is a thing in this game, & its not even about funds), besides that, i like feng shui.

[Mahrze]

I think your english is fine, yet i still disagree with your so called degree of availability making any size in any ward an equal value, besides i like feng shui.

Can't blame you. I simply see that the more wards where there is housing available, be it The Goblet or Shirogane gives you the same opportunity to own a house, which to me is where the value of said opportunity lies. Hence why I disagree with him asking for all the housing on one option or two.