Housing Suggestions

[Almagnus1]

Would it kill you to be concise?

It wouldn't be the miracle fix you and others think it would be.

I'm suspecting it'd free up about a third of the housing market.

While I'm not a fan of one man FCs, there are plenty of times when it's better for a crafter to have their own FC than to try to please FC leaders to gain access to airships/ subs for materials.

I don't know why we aren't working closer with Garlond Ironworks, or some other way to give us workshop access.

Also, would you give a grace period for this, like you have 5 days, 10 days, 45 days (the amount of the demo timer) to find a new member if your FC dipped below the threshold?

It should be obvious that SE should do that, and that I have to actually state such....

As there are FC chests in the main cities, there is no reason to have a house just to access the FC chest. That's why there are so many RMT FCs, they want access to the chest for trades.

If by RMT you mean Real Money Transaction - that should NEVER be encouraged because that's how the gil farmers make their money, rip off accounts, and do a whole host of not good things.

"All game functionality should be consistent among all players." Either you want nothing grandfathered in and want everyone to be on the same playing field or you are making exceptions. Please tell me which it is. I find it very hard to make rationale arguments when you change stances on things. Mostly I think you just fail to grasp how difficult what you want is. Probably the biggest reason things get grandfathered in is because of what a huge pain it would be to "fix" things. Much easier (and better for everyone in the long run) to let things be grandfathered in with things sorting themselves out in the long run.

Give me an actual example on something that matters, and not some weird bug that's basically about placing daisies in your house. Otherwise your point is frivolous.

The real issue is that 2-3 wards is a drop in the bucket of the amount of housing that is needed currently on most servers.

If the existing stock gets 2-3 wards per neighborhood freed up (I think it's probably higher) because of forcing release, it's still going to help the situation because that's adding in 8-12 wards back into the pool.

The only reason there are still multiple plots for sale on all servers is because personal housing cannot be purchased. Once that is lifted, everything will sell out very quickly again. And I expect much crying, especially since people will have had to sit there and wait to buy open houses, only to not be able to but one in the end.

That and SE needs to start adding more and more wards.

Until apartments are expanded or we are given triple the amount of wards we currently have, there will always be a shortage of houses on most NA servers.

Instance housing is not the solution here because that's going to put far more stress on the server than you think it will, and have load times that aren't basically instant because the server will have to fetch the instanced house from disk to load into memory, rather than just having the entire ward already in memory and being able to quickly work with the ward.

If you can't argue the technical side, please stop.

And as I stated before most of the large servers probably need about 50+ wards for housing. We're currently at 18 wards.

Your math sucks, we're at 4*18 = 72 wards total.

[HyoMinPark]

Instance housing is not the solution here because that's going to put far more stress on the server than you think it will, and have load times that aren't basically instant because the server will have to fetch the instanced house from disk to load into memory, rather than just having the entire ward already in memory and being able to quickly work with the ward.

Except the wards being constantly loaded into memory are what's causing a lot of the problems with housing. Data isn't cheap; SE doesn't own their servers, they rent them from a company and pay for the accompanying data. Combine that with the fact that there is still a lot of 1.0 code floating around in this game being tricky to work around on occasion, the wards cause more strain that I think you realize. If the big wigs don't want to allocate more funds to purchasing more data for expansion of the wards, then we end up making do with what we have. Data isn't endless.

If the servers use SSD hardware, fetching instances takes next to no time. Instances are only loaded into memory when they're occupied; the Wards are up 24/7. Being as intricate as they are, they strain the servers, which is one reason it takes so long for them to add more, and why they can't do something like dynamic wards, where when one fills up another pops up, and so on. Again, the developers have stated multiple times the strain the wards place on the servers.

Your math sucks, we're at 4*18 = 72 wards total.

I'm fairly certain they were meaning we would need 50 wards per district, where as right now we're at 18 per district. Not just 18 total.

[Mahrze]

Your math sucks, we're at 4*18 = 72 wards total.

I think you just missed the entire point of their explanation and tried to be cheeky with this math reply and being pedantic about it.

If you can't argue the technical side, please stop.

With windows 32-bit limitations, you can explain it with quantum computing and those 32-bit limitations and spaghetti code will make your explanation moot. Instanced housing -could- be the solution, more houses more often is -another potential- solution, trying to take houses form people who already have multiple ones without a good outcome is not a solution. If you can't explain it in simple terms, you don't understand it.

[Almagnus1]

With windows 32-bit limitations, you can explain it with quantum computing and those 32-bit limitations and spaghetti code will make your explanation moot.

I hate to break it to you, but server code is all 64 bit, and quantum computers generally aren't widely used outside of research areas.

Please stop trying to make stuff up to make yourself sound smarter.

trying to take houses form people who already have multiple ones without a good outcome is not a solution.

At worst, it's a 50/50 split, at best, you're sacrificing one customer to make 16 happy. There is no numerical argument where the multiple house owners come out ahead, just a selfish emotional one that should be disregarded.

[Ruf]

At worst, it's a 50/50 split, at best, you're sacrificing one customer to make 16 happy. There is no numerical argument where the multiple house owners come out ahead, just a selfish emotional one that should be disregarded.

While i dont like the extreme turn your comment is taking... If that really is se excuse & problem upon not giving everyone else the opportunity to get an universal chance at a large/medium/small(all 3 of them) house, then i agree no one should be grandfathered more than one home, & no i am not wishing for that, but again if that really is the issue & if that would really solve that (so we can all have either a small,a medium or a large depending on our gil pool) then i agree

[Flashgordon1975]

I would say your reading comprehension is the issue...not their math skills.

Stop complaining and wait for auto demolition to kick in and you will get your house. The way you argue it seems like this is a matter of national security.

Also your slave owner comparison is simply atrocious and shows just how extreme you are in your view if you feel that way. In my opinion housing is a prestige item and should be a scarce resource. SE is under no obligation to ensure all people GET all content. Their obligation is to give players an opportunity to get all content. They have done that. Stop being a salty beach.

[MizArai]

I'm suspecting it'd free up about a third of the housing market.

There is no way.

It should be obvious that SE should do that, and that I have to actually state such....

Well, with some of your ideas so far, it was a valid question.

If by RMT you mean Real Money Transaction - that should NEVER be encouraged because that's how the gil farmers make their money, rip off accounts, and do a whole host of not good things.

I wasn't encouraging it. Just stating a well known fact.

Give me an actual example on something that matters, and not some weird bug that's basically about placing daisies in your house. Otherwise your point is frivolous.

I gave you a real example of people having alts on friends list. You said that should get fixed, then said people should be able to use houses to pass stuff to alts, you apparently meant they should be able to use FC chest to do it, except I have alts in multiple FCs, so to me, that's a super silly idea. Especially when you consider that most people don't have access to most items in their FC's chest.

If the existing stock gets 2-3 wards per neighborhood freed up (I think it's probably higher) because of forcing release, it's still going to help the situation because that's adding in 8-12 wards back into the pool.

I really don't understand how me saying 100-200 houses would be reclaimed and you translated that into 2-3 wards somehow turned into 8-12 wards worth of houses being added back in. There is no way there's 480-720 houses that would get reclaimed per server from people owning multiple houses. I know of 3 people with multiple houses. All of them have 2 personal houses. With housing being a huge interest of mine, I often talk to people about housing. If you assume that about 5% of homeowners have 2 houses, then you'd be reclaiming 216 houses with your no grandfathering take all the extra houses away stance.

That and SE needs to start adding more and more wards.

Instance housing is not the solution here because that's going to put far more stress on the server than you think it will, and have load times that aren't basically instant because the server will have to fetch the instanced house from disk to load into memory, rather than just having the entire ward already in memory and being able to quickly work with the ward.

If you can't argue the technical side, please stop.

Instanced housing would actually help a lot, since it would only put a load on the server when people were inside the instance of the house. (And technically we already have instanced housing, it's called apartments. And it's probably why they said they'll look into trying to make small, medium, and large apartments because that would be easier on the servers than continuing to add more and more wards like some people want.) I think you're very confused about the technical side of things, so I'll just save you any further embarrassment by not pointing out further flaws about this.

Your math sucks, we're at 4*18 = 72 wards total.

Um, look at your equation. You did 4*18 because there are 18 WARDS in each district, so we're at 18 wards. My math is fine. Thanks for proving that you just want to fight though. If you must see my math though here goes:

Total Wards Needed = Total Houses Needed/(4*60)

NA has at least 8 servers with over 10k "active" players. If you do a base line of 12,000 needed houses (10,000 for players, 2,000 for FCs), then you end up with needing 50 wards. Like I said before, that still wouldn't be enough for Balmung, Leviathan, Greg, Cactuar, or Excalibur. It might be enough for Hyperion, Behemoth, and Sargatanas. Though the smaller servers would be swimming in extra houses.

[Almagnus1]

There is no way.

Then show me your data that disproves my claim.

I gave you a real example of people having alts on friends list.

Which I said should be removed.

then said people should be able to use houses to pass stuff to alts

So they wouldn't need to create FCs to do this.

[QUOTE=MizArai;4576967]except I have alts in multiple FCs, so to me, that's a super silly idea.[QUOTE=MizArai;4576967]

Which means you're both part of the problem and incapable at looking at this objectively.

Especially when you consider that most people don't have access to most items in their FC's chest.

Which is why we need another alternative for account wide storage.

I really don't understand how me saying 100-200 houses would be reclaimed and you translated that into 2-3 wards somehow turned into 8-12 wards worth of houses being added back in. There is no way there's 480-720 houses that would get reclaimed per server from people owning multiple houses. I know of 3 people with multiple houses. All of them have 2 personal houses. With housing being a huge interest of mine, I often talk to people about housing. If you assume that about 5% of homeowners have 2 houses, then you'd be reclaiming 216 houses with your no grandfathering take all the extra houses away stance.

It's because you're being ambiguous with your numbers and I called you out on it.

Instanced housing would actually help a lot, since it would only put a load on the server when people were inside the instance of the house.

No it won't, not on a massive scale. You're trading additional space in server memory for increased server I/O... which can lead to other issues. Downside of server design.

Um, look at your equation. You did 4*18 because there are 18 WARDS in each district, so we're at 18 wards. My math is fine. Thanks for proving that you just want to fight though. If you must see my math though here goes:

Four neighborhoods, 18 wards each, a total of 72 wards.

Whoever said we needed to add wards to ALL housing neighbor hoods at the same time?

If a neighborhood isn't as popular as the others... why add more space to it that's not going to get used?

[Mahrze]

If a neighborhood isn't as popular as the others... why add more space to it that's not going to get used?

And why focus on one housing area? A house of any size in any ward is of equal worthvalue, not of equal valueinterest. Don't confuse these please.

[Ruf]

And why focus on one housing area? A house of any size in any ward is of equal value, not of equal interest. Don't confuse these please.

While i agree that all areas need same amount of wards, i disagree to say that any size in any ward is equal value, thats what we want but its not the case... (ie: plots houses facing bad & ugly directions & limited land size, not to say ressources of mediums & larges houses,,, but fact is, without a dumb restriction that bane most of everybody everyone could build a mansion if they did/do put enough efforts in it) 109/10