Tank dps harrasment

[NephthysVasudan]

<snip>

In spite of my opinion...and it is just an opinion....you play the game as you see fit....the most important part here is this is a party environment....its one thing to communicate/ask if its ok to go all out..its an entirely different matter to "ass-um" or just declare this is how it is...and thats that.

If the party is willing to go for it...then go for it....more power to im...but don't second guess people...that's my sticking point.

Which is why with most random groups..ill tank..and pull as i see fit <which is cautiously to make sure the party can handle it - and if i see they are doing good - i may just throw a monkey wrench in and pull even more - i may be holding back because A: I happen to have an issue with the next batch B: I'm not as confident in the party - my job is to keep the party alive - not satisfy peoples bloodlust> or DPS and just not give a bloody crap about it and deal with whatever foolishness they throw my way...cause that's just how it is. Don't expect any commendations however....ill likely give that to the guy who suffered/broke his/her back for the party.

Which 9 times out of 10...is the healer.....sorry but its true.

Again...don't have a problem with people pushing their limits...but randoms? Don't trust people that much.... Hell I call it a miracle when someone actually uses Esuna. ^_^

[Lilseph]

Already started teaching our new sprout tank in our FC about this very subject. Each Job has a specific task....people keep pushing the envelope and making them do things they really shouldn't. an extra 5 minutes in a dungeon won't kill anyone...sure as hell will take less time if you bloody wipe the damn party!!!! (Yes very salty :P )

Please don't do this.

I know I'll sound like a d*** but show them both alternatives. Let them choose, don't adapt people to your style just because you hate the opposite way. Although no one is saying tanks should pull A+ DPS in dungeons, they should know that there are moments where the tank DPS is required, either solo or with a co-tank. Either for compensation or cooperation. We can argue it's not our job to DPS, but if we can do it, then why not? We can also argue that if the DPS is low it's the DPS the ones you should blame, but if you can compensate and save the run... THEN WHY NOT? Be the better man. Bear in mind that people will test the waters sometimes and potentially get killed until they find a balance. Rotating cds, compensating the loss of a tank stance (during bosses), pulling as much as they can and see how well they do.

Since we're using anecdotes, I'll share mine. I main tank for raiding/ex primals an sometimes dungeons, but I mostly heal. I got a tank dying to the snakes in Hell's Lid because these hit like a motherf****. No one complained. And this is the story with every group ever. It's the tank that mostly blame themselves when the pull goes wrong or, if I know it was my fault, I take responsability and we adapt. Like some of you people say "5 extra minutes won't hurt", so it doesn't matter then if you wipe and try again. It's a learning process.

inb4 I'm an elitist. I'm really not, but I like to be somewhat optimal. I don't demand tanks to DPS unless we're in a raid environment. In dungeons, the only think that pisses me off when a tank goes YOLO and they don't pop a single CD, thinking that holding aggro and being in tank stance is enough. Either that or they stutter behind, doing the smallest pulls ever.

[NephthysVasudan]

<snip>

For someone who is insistent on giving me advice...you like to contradict yourself. I suggest you learn to pay attention what others are saying before you assume that what I'm teaching is "bad" in your general opinion.

And yes..I do call that elitist on your part.

For me? I don't think its unfair to be concerned for the party...over my "concern for how much time this takes".
Funny thing is...I don't disagree with the meat of your statements....your attitude however..and approach? Yeah..I'll pass on that. And yes..i'm guilty...salty..bitter.
But my motivations are vastly different form yours.

[Lilseph]

For someone who is insistent on giving me advice...you like to contradict yourself. I suggest you learn to pay attention what others are saying before you assume that what I'm teaching is "bad" in your general opinion.

And yes..I do call that elitist on your part.

For me? I don't think its unfair to be concerned for the party...over my "concern for how much time this takes".
Funny thing is...I don't disagree with the meat of your statements....your attitude however..and approach? Yeah..I'll pass on that. And yes..i'm guilty...salty..bitter.
But my motivations are vastly different form yours.

Approach? Attitude? Just because of the "don't do this?" I think you're being a bit oversensitive here. With what you consider elitism, then I think the best for me is to give up. You clearly have a distorted and superficial take of that concept. Or maybe, when you stop being salty, we can sit and discuss. For the time being, I wish a good day, mister/missy.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Eh, don't have to troll to still sound like an arrogant hag. Also doesn't help since your main job seems to be not a tank, so it's not like it looks like you have much credibility in your argument anyway.

What arrogance is there in saying dungeons do very little damage? Stress is entirely subjective. One may find even the slightest large pull stressful whilst another finds it dull. I wasn't aware I needed to main tanks to know how to competently play them, especially in a dungeon. I have, however, tanked both EX and Savage as if that matters for mass pulls in dungeon content.

I also find it amusing you resort to name calling. Pot meets kettle.

Legit question, do you think they are calling you a troll for disagreeing like you claim? Or because of your continued attitude while disagreeing?

The only "attitude" I copped, if you could even call it that, was highlighting someone using a generalized and exaggerative stance in a factual manner. The response I quoted came across condescending, thus my tone. If you want to nitpick whether it's "trolling," be my guest.

[NephthysVasudan]

<snip>

Sigh....you reallllly do not get it do you.

*facepalm*

[Mazora_Espeon]

All I'm gonna say is that I would like if Tanks could be more durable, not so squishy and survive long enough so that I can deal some damage before/while I heal them. So in addition to (or I is it instead of?) of this idea about Tanks expecting to deal damage, how about people stop expecting Healers to be their own personal heal batteries. Please and thank you!

[AxlStream]

You all need to calm down. In the end it all ends up on how the tank gauges his group on the first pull. Very partial to big pulls myself and being a tank main, I will always do a first big pull, see how thing goes and adjust from there. If something is beyond adjusting though, that's when the boot comes. I feel like dungeons became a place where people don't expect to use their cooldowns but they are part of your kit to be used. Healer and tank cooldowns in dungeon are so little in demand that you shouldn't feel bad for popping that Thin Air, Presence of Mind, Lightspeed, Largesse or w/e your healer utility is and other tank defensive cooldowns. Bosses don't demand them either unless the group tryuly is abysmal (looking at you group that made me solo the 2nd and 3rd boss of Hell's Lid).

Let's all rise up to a challenge and use dungeons as a relatively safe way to push ourselves and become more acclimated to what we can actually do instead of just a ride down the lazy river.

[Mazora_Espeon]

You all need to calm down. In the end it all ends up on how the tank gauges his group on the first pull. Very partial to big pulls myself and being a tank main, I will always do a first big pull, see how thing goes and adjust from there. If something is beyond adjusting though, that's when the boot comes. I feel like dungeons became a place where people don't expect to use their cooldowns but they are part of your kit to be used. Healer and tank cooldowns in dungeon are so little in demand that you shouldn't feel bad for popping that Thin Air, Presence of Mind, Lightspeed, Largesse or w/e your healer utility is and other tank defensive cooldowns. Bosses don't demand them either unless the group tryuly is abysmal (looking at you group that made me solo the 2nd and 3rd boss of Hell's Lid).

Let's all rise up to a challenge and use dungeons as a relatively safe way to push ourselves and become more acclimated to what we can actually do instead of just a ride down the lazy river.

And don't be squishy...

[NephthysVasudan]

And don't be squishy...

To add to that..wiping in the first 5 minutes is bad ok? :P