Tank dps harrasment

[AxlStream]

You all need to calm down. In the end it all ends up on how the tank gauges his group on the first pull. Very partial to big pulls myself and being a tank main, I will always do a first big pull, see how thing goes and adjust from there. If something is beyond adjusting though, that's when the boot comes. I feel like dungeons became a place where people don't expect to use their cooldowns but they are part of your kit to be used. Healer and tank cooldowns in dungeon are so little in demand that you shouldn't feel bad for popping that Thin Air, Presence of Mind, Lightspeed, Largesse or w/e your healer utility is and other tank defensive cooldowns. Bosses don't demand them either unless the group tryuly is abysmal (looking at you group that made me solo the 2nd and 3rd boss of Hell's Lid).

Let's all rise up to a challenge and use dungeons as a relatively safe way to push ourselves and become more acclimated to what we can actually do instead of just a ride down the lazy river.

[Mazora_Espeon]

You all need to calm down. In the end it all ends up on how the tank gauges his group on the first pull. Very partial to big pulls myself and being a tank main, I will always do a first big pull, see how thing goes and adjust from there. If something is beyond adjusting though, that's when the boot comes. I feel like dungeons became a place where people don't expect to use their cooldowns but they are part of your kit to be used. Healer and tank cooldowns in dungeon are so little in demand that you shouldn't feel bad for popping that Thin Air, Presence of Mind, Lightspeed, Largesse or w/e your healer utility is and other tank defensive cooldowns. Bosses don't demand them either unless the group tryuly is abysmal (looking at you group that made me solo the 2nd and 3rd boss of Hell's Lid).

Let's all rise up to a challenge and use dungeons as a relatively safe way to push ourselves and become more acclimated to what we can actually do instead of just a ride down the lazy river.

And don't be squishy...

[NephthysVasudan]

And don't be squishy...

To add to that..wiping in the first 5 minutes is bad ok? :P

[Mazora_Espeon]

To add to that..wiping in the first 5 minutes is bad ok? :P

Um... no. Don't add that to my post... =|

[Miste]

I don't get why people get so upset if a tank pulls too much and ends up wiping, as long as they learn the group is not capable of that pull after that and reduces the amount pulled I don't see the problem?

I mean if I am on DPS for example and tank pulls a lot and we die ...am I the only one who doesn't care? He tried to do the more efficient pull style, but people were maybe newer or not capable skill-wise so then we change to smaller pulls...I mean at least we tried? Why does it matter if we fail once? Sometimes the only way to see if the party can handle it is to just try.

Mistakes happen no matter what type of play style people use.

[Aylis]

I don't get why people get so upset if a tank pulls too much and ends up wiping, as long as they learn the group is not capable of that pull after that and reduces the amount pulled I don't see the problem?

Cos more often then not, that wipe leads to arguing, flaming, finger pointing and generally more wasted time sitting and watching the party bickering. The one player demanding to be kicked and a battle of who can hold who hostage, etc. Large pulls are fine if thats what the group want's, but ask first, talk, communicate with each other Don't assume by item level and what not what everyone wants to do, don't just do without asking first. I think that's what most are against, assumptions. People do dungeons for different reasons.

Some like to push themselves all the time, that's okay.
Some already spent the day pushing themselves and just want a calm wind down of the night, that's okay.
Some don't care about pushing themselves and just want tomes and a little loot, that's okay.
Some maybe new/newish and getting a feel of the place, that's okay.

and so on and so on.

So many headaches could be solved with a simple "How does everyone want to do this?"

[Miste]

Large pulls are fine if thats what the group want's, but ask first, talk, communicate with each other Don't assume by item level and what not what everyone wants to do, don't just do without asking first. I think that's what most are against, assumptions. People do dungeons for different reasons.

Erm...but can't that same thing be used for single pulling? It is still making an assumption...it is just the opposite of speed pulling. Why assume by item level and what not that everyone wants single pulls?

I mean I never said to just assume anyway I just personally don't care if said mistake happens, but you also can't expect everyone to know what you want either. Some tanks might just have gotten a lot of people asking them for speed runs so they just do it out of habit or they just will play however they prefer unless someone asks them to do something different.

So yeah people could ask first, but IF a tank doesn't ask and does speed pulls and it is too stressful for you or you feel the group can't handle it you have the power to speak up and ask for what you prefer.

If someone is doing something you really don't like or is making the run too stressful on you then speak up. No one can do anything for you if they don't know what you want.

[Aylis]

Erm...but can't that same thing be used for single pulling? It is still making an assumption...it is just the opposite of speed pulling. Why assume by item level and what not that everyone wants single pulls?

Hence the motto of the post. Ask, communicate with the party, reach a common ground, compromise. Treat each party as its own different ball game.

[Taika]

Let's all rise up to a challenge and use dungeons as a relatively safe way to push ourselves and become more acclimated to what we can actually do instead of just a ride down the lazy river.

Hear hear!

And to be honest, I'd rather wipe in the first 5 mins than spend 20 minutes fighting against falling asleep.

[Colt47]

Honestly, the problem with most dungeons is that the rotations for damage dealers makes it so casual players who come back to the game have to relearn too much to be able to effectively dps and keep up with the field. The entire reason I play paladin main is because paladin is probably the most forgiving for someone who comes back to the game from an extended haitus, and I've found no equivalent in the melee or caster dps outside maybe RDM, which will probably get more complicated in whatever next expansion they release. Part of what made FFXIV vanilla fun for more casual players wanting to relive those raiding days was the fact your rotation didn't hamper your ability to pay attention to boss mechanics.

Simply put, if they want a raiding end game economy to be healthy, the raids must be accessible to players that are not necessarily able to put in part time hours to mastering rotations while also handling the mechanics. That's been one of the greatest pitfalls of the MMO industry post 2008 if I recall, as they were making progress in accessibility, then just plateaued on game development when everyone played the World of Warcraft Copy Cat card with games like Warhammer, Age of Conan, the action evolution games like Tera, and many others.

I'm still happy with FFXIV as it stands, but given that raiding is still only composed of a meager percentage of the player base due to the time constraint issues and fears from high expectations I don't really understand why the company feels obligated to keeping themselves beholden to such an age old philosophy of hardcore. They also need ways for players to level other jobs while not taking away from their end game grinding endeavors.