Black Mage

[Kacho_Nacho]

That there are other flaws that is true, but if the turret caster that should be rewarded with high dmg by using his tools correctly doesn't do said dmg it's a major flaw that needs to be addressed in some ways.

Exactly! There is a place for pure damage jobs in this game. Their "utility" should be reflected in the fact that they bring a lot more damage to the party than a utility based job does. It is self-evident, that unless Square Enix desires to change the identity of Black Mages, our delving into the black arts friends deserve a major damage boost across the board for every fire, ice, lightning, and unaspected spell. Samurai and Black Mages should do equal damage with perfect play while being the heads of the pack and being 10% to 15% higher than the next job in the rankings.

[Remedi]

Tbh another flaw is that we lack a proper way to deal burst dmg, which is what we lost in the HW- SB transition without a compensation.

SAM has a way to deal burst dmg for example.

Frankly speaking I don't really see BLM beign passable as sustained consider what movements brings so they should make so that BLM can compensate somehow

[Kabooa]

Tbh another flaw is that we lack a proper way to deal burst dmg, which is what we lost in the HW- SB transition without a compensation.

SAM has a way to deal burst dmg for example.

Frankly speaking I don't really see BLM beign passable as sustained consider what movements brings so they should make so that BLM can compensate somehow

Triple cast and Foul and we lost ways to deal burst damage...?

I mean, you kinda can if it required high skill/planning to execute (and was also capable of being executed).

You can't. Summoner is already an outlier, the exception, not the rule. Buffing more jobs up to its level just means any job that doesn't get the buff falls further behind until they're the outlier on the 'low end' of the spectrum while the rest are now in the average.

And then you're ultimately just in the same place you were before.

[Sfia]

"Sustained DPS" is inherently at a disadvantage now when compared to classes which rely on more OGCDS or higher burst windows, due to the nature of multiplicative buff stacking. I seriously hope this is taken into consideration with the 4.2 changes.

People are throwing ideas around, and ultimately many of them could work, and it wouldn't really matter which is implemented as long as the numbers can make up the offensive deficit BLM currently sits in.
If SE is happy to instead move away from BLM being a primary damage dealer (meaning it does not provide more raid dps than any other) it needs an immense defensive utility buff.

Without one of these 2 conditions being met BLM will continue to be undesired in every end game setting.

Right now all we can do is hope that square understands this \o/

[Llugen]

It's not really the same though because SMN is pretty easy to play and is not punished for mobility at all. Basically I'm saying if BLM had severe punishment but ridiculously high "fully efficient" damage, then it would be interesting nuance.

It's not just flat potency buff, it's skill level ceiling raised, is what I mean.


Master Sfia dropping more truth bombs

[Remedi]

Triple cast and Foul and we lost ways to deal burst damage...?

Triple is not a Burst CD it makes your cast very slightly faster while it should be used for that movement moment that is coming soon enough

Foul isn't really burst either. I mean It's a high dmg spell but that's about it really

We lack a propher burst phase that we had in 3.x

[Llugen]

Agreed, BLM deserves a damage buff. Embolden is a damage buff, DWT is technically a damage buff. Seems silly that BLM doesn't have a damage buff.


Could do either 2 minutes for synergy or 90 seconds so it's up with Ley Lines. Or Remedi's Kaiten-on-BLM idea, that'd be fine too.

I still think we should talk more consideration about Enochian radiance. It's barely anything but it's more than nothing~

[Kabooa]

I still think we should talk more consideration about Enochian radiance. It's barely anything but it's more than nothing~

This forfeits any call for more personal damage, because the balance on UI / AF uptime is like, 25-75. You'd be bringing an average damage buff of ~1.75% just for existing.

[HaroldSaxon]

You can't even have Black Mage being too far ahead of Summoner, because then that starts the cycle of buffing all over again. Fact of the matter is swinging anyone too far out of the range of others, when the game by design is about a minimal DPS check that all party comps can theoretically reach, means you can't have any one job capable of joing +20-25% of the average of the others.

You can't have this.

If it's 5%, then it's easily ignored if that 5% comes at the cost of other tools. If it's 15% you're bordering on unacceptable levels and it's 5-15%, it's a toss up but you're still better off going with the Tool-bringer because they enable more.

The Melee, Ranged, and Caster roles require a fairly large rearrangement of the tools they bring, because currently it all favors Ranged, which means you want a Dragoon to boost them, and your last spot could technically be anything but it might as well be ninja because threat and Trick attack.

Yes you can if:
a) BLM continues to have no dps party buffs
b) Double Caster comps are made viable for speedrunning (and for clarity, my definition of viable isn't meta - its close to the meta - like how SMN is now).

You are correct about the tools. But even if that is fixed, BLM is still going to be in such a poor state.

The shots, they've been fired.
Give RDM piercing down and SMN blunt down. It's straight up awful design that only DRG and only MNK have piercing and blunt respectively (and that now NO ONE benefits from blunt down save for MNK). The resistance down skills COULD make for a layer of strategy but they don't, purely because they are LOCKED into one single class (ranged can ONLY benefit from DRG because piercing, rather than being able to put it up themselves or have RDM do it, etc).

This is what makes the resistances down so stupid; the fact that they are so sparse, making for less potential "synergistic combinations", and why poor MNK is STILL on the outskirts after all this time. It doesn't need to be this way, we just can't seem to get this concept through to the developers (note how they tried to "nerf" disembowel to 5% instead of just removing it, or adding it to other jobs, which had absolutely no affect on its usage in the meta lol).


By the way, that is part of the reason that the whole "raw damage no utility" mentality BS has to go ASAP. Parties don't want "raw damage" jobs that require feeding, they want to be themselves buffed. If this isn't the no-brainerest of no-brainers, then I don't know what is.

Even if you gave RDM piercing down, DRG would still be preferred. SMN getting blunt down would be interesting, but that's only because its close to being meta now. The issue with these kinds of buffs imo is that they aren't interactive, and that the damage types of classes aren't balanced - plus there would need to be a permanent Magic vuln down buff too. You would need to give these debuffs to multiple roles too.

They actually nerfed hypercharge too, but I guess they didn't calculate correctly how the freedom of movements would impact the dps of ranged jobs plus ofc ranged complained about one beign better than the other, drg complained to no end and we are back to square one.

Myabe they could remove refresh from the rangeds and give it to casters. This would change something imho, wouldn't really fix BLM problems, but BLM problems are also in part a weakness in the role.

Then again nothing forbids BLM in having an hypergcharge like effect or bringing a magical weakness to the targets.
Fact is atm there are 2 kinds of support which are active and passive. Passive support can be considered selfish in a way if you think about it

The last time Hypercharge was changed, it was buffed.

I've said this several times across many of the threads, I'm a big fan of Enhanced Enochian "radiating out" power (maybe 2% damage increase in Astral, 1% in Umbral) in a similar manner to BRD's songs. Literally nothing changes about BLM's playstyle/rotation/raw damage "presentation", but parties already inherently would be more interested in bringing it on that stipulation alone.


Talk about good "party utility", you don't even have to press a button! (save for once, when you turn it on at the start) The very fact that you have a BLM in your party means you're doing increased damage, and I think that fits the job well.




I see no reason for them to remove Refresh from the ranged role, it's kinda their thing, they just need to make Mana Shift significantly more meaningful. Make it cost no MP for the user and give 60% of MP back to one player, maybe.


Lastly, I'll repeat again that synergy is not bad, in fact I think it's a really good thing and desirable for your game's strategy. It's just that it's waaaayyyyy too limited right now. Seriously, it's straight up dumb that only DRG has piercing and only MNK has blunt while like a full 5 classes have slashing. (WAR NIN SAM.... ok well 3 classes have it and 5 can benefit from it, DRK PLD).


Parties should be able to be like: "Ok so if we bring MNK and SMN, then ifrit can give the MNK blunt down and the BRD can do his combo to apply piercing, or we could bring the RDM for piercing instead and the MNK can play SAM to give our PLD/DRK slashing, or our dancer can do both blunt AND slashing with its whip and then we can bring MNK DRG so the DRG can give piercing to the MCH, or we could go pure caster comp and do PLD/Rune Knight/SMN/BLM/RDM since Embolden buffs all damage now (plz) and BLM has 10% magic vuln..."


...the synergy list could go on and on. But it doesn't, and that's the dilemma (in my opinion). That's what truly makes the resistances down poorly designed; they're too limited. There will still be a "strongest one", there will still be a Most Effective Tactic Available, but it gives a hell of a lot more clarity and sense for doing things like MNK/SAM and shitting on your BRD or PLD/DRK/MNK/DRG and shitting on your tanks. META isn't everything, but no-brainers are pretty no-brainer-y ("without piercing (which ONLY COMES from DRG) your ranged is gonna have a bad time")

Giving every single class DPS utility is boring. Make classes different. Allow each DPS role to have a "DPS carry" class that doesn't give raid DPS but does give very good personal DPS. Add some more single target raid buffs. But even if that is fixed, BLM is still going to be in such a poor state.

And that is not true because ppl wanted SAM for his dmg at the start of SB and we said it countless times.

And frankly blackcat did said that in the end that is the problem of BLM because you play your perfect game and still you are not rewarded for the effort.
It is a mayor flaw.

That there are other flaws that is true, but if the turret caster that should be rewarded with high dmg by using his tools correcly doesn't do said dmg it's a mayor flaw that needs to be addressed in some ways.

That is actually not true. People knew SAM wouldn't be meta. You are right that you can play BLM perfectly and still not get rewarded for it.

Exactly! There is a place for pure damage jobs in this game. Their "utility" should be reflected in the fact that they bring a lot more damage to the party than a utility based job does. It is self-evident, that unless Square Enix desires to change the identity of Black Mages, our delving into the black arts friends deserve a major damage boost across the board for every fire, ice, lightning, and unaspected spell. Samurai and Black Mages should do equal damage with perfect play while being the heads of the pack and being 10% to 15% higher than the next job in the rankings.

BLM should outdamage SAM because it has more uptime issues than SAM. Other than that, I agree.

Tbh another flaw is that we lack a proper way to deal burst dmg, which is what we lost in the HW- SB transition without a compensation.

SAM has a way to deal burst dmg for example.

Frankly speaking I don't really see BLM beign passable as sustained consider what movements brings so they should make so that BLM can compensate somehow

You are correct - which is mainly a problem with how raid buffs get stacked for burst phases. If "carry dps" had enough sustained DPS (as well as some single target buffs to go on them during these burst phases), they would be more viable.

Triple cast and Foul and we lost ways to deal burst damage...?



You can't. Summoner is already an outlier, the exception, not the rule. Buffing more jobs up to its level just means any job that doesn't get the buff falls further behind until they're the outlier on the 'low end' of the spectrum while the rest are now in the average.

And then you're ultimately just in the same place you were before.

Triple Cast isn't burst damage. It just makes a spell instant cast (and a small reduction in cast time for F4). Foul is used in Umbral Ice - after a B3, and before a B4, T3 and UI F3. Burst windows are usually 10 seconds long to match up with trick attack. F4 isn't a burst spell anymore - its a sustained DPS spell. We lost Raging Strikes from 3.x which was our major burst spell.

SMN isn't even meta right now - MCH is. SMN is very close to being viable which means its good balance work imo.

[Remedi]

The nerf to hypercharge I mentioned was during the change to SB, before it was 10% physical dmg for rook and 10% magical dmg for rook, they changed it to 5% neutral dmg in my opinion to balance it while trying to nerf double ranged comp a bit.


Anyway what if I tell you that MCH could be considered a selfish dps too?