Why Does It Feel Like Poor Play Is Acceptable (I'm Venting.)

[F_Maximillian]

So you can choose to experience outrage or acceptance, it's up to you really.

The net product seems to remain the same either way however.

I doubt anyone here is actually outraged, just disappointed that something so simple seems to be such a foreign concept to so many people on this game. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Iscah]

[Re. learning AoE avoidance] There's a proper exercise in the Hall of the Novice for heals and iirc dps that teach you exactly that.

Yes, but also no. What the exercise taught me was that the pattern to AoE warning markers was:

1. Warning marker appears
2. Warning marker disappears
3. Nothing happens for a second or so
4. Enemy attacks previously-marked spot

During the exercise, you want to make sure you pass, so move out of the marker as soon as it appears, but in a real battle situation you want to keep attacking for as long as you can, in which case it seems intuitive that the *disappearance* of the marker is your sign to get out of the way in that short space of time between the marker disappearing and the actual attack beginning.

However, what actually happens is:

1. Warning marker appears
2. Warning marker disappears, and anyone still standing in it will be counted as hit by the attack
3. It's now safe to re-enter the previously marked zone
4. You can stand in the middle of the visible explosion and not get hit, while the newbie standing apparently well clear of it will take damage.

This is what's not explained, and goes against what you might naturally expect to happen.

[SenorPatty]

Stupidest thread ever. People should be able to play how they want to.

/facepalm

You know why you say that? You haven't been in a party where 7 other people do exactly what the OP said: spam 1 button skill and think its okay. And you haven't been in them enough. I want to see you clear content over and over with those kind of people. I want you to solo heal an 8man raid/trial because your co-healer spams only one skill and you can only hope that's at least med 2 and not aero 3. I want you to dps while your other dps casts blizzard over and over and over again and still say "people should be able to play how they want to. good job mage"

So easy to talk smack when you haven't been in the bad long enough.

[Aomine1992]

Unfortunately this has been the norm for this game and many more like it, there were the same issues in WoW, and terra unfortunately some people just offer nothing in terms of team play....

Haven’t exactly figured out how to even counter this?

Tell a dps to aoe you get screamed at or kicked, tell a tank not to pull to much because they have no clue on cd usage same end result, tell a healer to dps because the tank needs like zero healing same result, so it’s become norm because people just stopped trying to deal with it and played with their friends instead

[RitsukoSonoda]

When they went and nerfed Steps of Faith because it'd have blocked people out of expansion content, it was the probably the biggest indicator that being a poor performer was "okay".

Which I found funny because I'd never had a wipe on that with a PUG until about 2 months after it was added and I was one of the first people to clear it on my server.

The same happened with Shinryu in SB.

We need to gate more stuff behind trials that require ppl to actually think and have at least basic knowledge of what a battle mechanic is and how their job is supposed to perform... >.>

This isn't your 90's offline console RPG where you can just cheese everything with your gameshark, game genie, or action replay. I sorely miss a great deal of the additional variables from FFXI where damage types and elements had an extremely noticeable impact on damage dealt and received and making the leader of one of my linkshells delvl every time we went to sky because he would never get an exp buffer :3

[Anienai]

linkshells delvl every time we went to sky because he would never get an exp buffer :3

The sound of ultimate suffering:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTIwBDNDO4M

[Bourne_Endeavor]

And people do the basics fine. If they don't, you'd be all complaining about how half of your expert runs end in failure, or how you have to do everything in statics because you can't even trust the duty finder for a simple leveling roulette. People really overrate how many bad players there are, and how often they show up in normal play. My guess is that the OP is tired of yet another farm party wiping, probably shinryu ex.

Because better players are forced to compensate. Just this week I was top five DPS against Mateus while playing White Mage. A healer contributed more DPS to the raid than Samurais, Ninjas, Summoners and etc. Had I been one of those healers who scarcely does more than the name implied, we're that much closer to not meeting the check at all. Just early this morning, a friend and I had a Ninja who died to almost every single mechanic—even directly standing in a few. While some players may have had lower tier gear, others were full 340 yet couldn't perform a simple rotation or deal with any mechanic more difficult than an auto-attack. By your definition, that's perfectly okay since we still eventually cleared. I, on the other hand, had no desire to carry a Ninja who was straining my MP pool with all the raises. He was swiftly kicked.

You claim people overrate bad players yet how much of the harder content do you participate in? Your anecdotal experiences are no more valid than mine, and I can assure you, the amount of players I have come across in everything ranging from Savage down to dungeons who have little to no idea what they're doing is staggering. And no, they aren't first timers but supposed "veterans." Come to think of it, that reminds me of a time someone actually used her veteran status to claimed I was a poor healer for allowing people to drop below 80%. She insisted anyone doing that was an idiot because "I've been playing since beta. I should know." But I suppose that's okay too right? After all, can't hurt anyone's feelings by expecting they do more than bang their heads on a keyboard.

Stupidest thread ever. People should be able to play how they want to. There are players of every skill level. There are too many people like yourself that ridicule others because they don't or aren't capable of playing to your competitive level.

Are you good at everything? Have you ever not played / done anything where you weren't good at but still did so anyway because it was enjoyable? And how would it make you feel if you did your best but it just wasn't good enough? Quit being so competitive and just play the game already.

Never imagined asking someone to press 1-2-3 was a daunting request. What say you to being in a party where...

Your WHM casts nothing but Medica II
Your PLD only uses Flash and maybe an occasionally uncombo'd Rage of Halone
Your DRG spams Impulse Drive

Suddenly you're looking at a 40+ minute dungeon, if you even clear to begin with. Just remember, you can't complain because "people should be able to play how they want."

[HyoMinPark]

As of this time, I have all but 3 jobs at 70. I've played for about 3 years I think, and I had all 60s by the end of HW. Apart from basic "learning the content" that happens during the first week or two of a patch, I've not seen anywhere near the level of "being bad" people keep complaining about. I haven't abandoned leveling content once, unless someone says "nope aurum vale" and leaves at start. People are thinking the rare cases of being bad are so much worse and frequent than they really are.

The real subjects that tend to come up with this tend to be EX-level pugs. People complain because they can't find decent farm parties, or if the primal is hard enough, clears.

Your personal anecdotes do not prove that bad parties don’t exist outside of the first few days/weeks of new content.

I’ve never been robbed. Doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen to other people every single day.

[Vstarstruck]

What you want is unreasonable to expect, so your argument is pointless.

As with any group-based activity in life, there is no guarantee that people for that group-based activity are going to have that minimum level of competency/contribution you are referring to; as such, it is unreasonable to expect a pug to possess this level ofcompetence 100% of the time. If you cannot accept this truth of pugging, you have the option of not pugging.

Your right, it is called getting fired, expect a kick if you are on pace for 30+ min clear because you can't do basic things:

This is a thing from making the game too easy, thus too easy to carry people

The reverse of design will effect players, just look at old ffxi. Was a lot less tolerated there.



?????
15-18 mins = GOOD PT! lets toss out coms to each other like Oprah gives away cars
19-25 mins = acceptable
26-35 mins = wonders how people get to this level, esp if "expert" is taking this long
36 mins + likely a troll premade, people standing around not doing nothing

Anything over 30+ is time wasted, there is no reason it should take that long, unless the group is sitting there for a tank replacement (ask ls etc after 2 mins though, works wonders)

If people are taking a long time because they are not listening to advice (like on a 30+ min pace for clear), a kick is valid.

last expert, start time, 14:05, end 14:23, 18 mins, solo queue as SMN.

As of this time, I have all but 3 jobs at 70. I've played for about 3 years I think, and I had all 60s by the end of HW. Apart from basic "learning the content" that happens during the first week or two of a patch, I've not seen anywhere near the level of "being bad" people keep complaining about. I haven't abandoned leveling content once, unless someone says "nope aurum vale" and leaves at start. People are thinking the rare cases of being bad are so much worse and frequent than they really are.

The real subjects that tend to come up with this tend to be EX-level pugs. People complain because they can't find decent farm parties, or if the primal is hard enough, clears.

You either do not know how to see it, or extremely lucky, pick one. I do not care if someone is pure lv 70 while all jobs are in current raid gear, some people do not have observance skills. It was not too long ago like a week? two at the most, where I had a personal tie to someone that ran an expert where she was able to pass a vote abandon after the first boss, this was. the tri-premade(likely troll) kicked her after complaining too much people where way under subpar in performance since it should not be taking 2-3 minutes to clear every pull. In fact this is the pure reason she does not even queue as healer anymore because of too much stress of carrying. At least as DPS it can be reasonable if the other DPS is simply "passing" or can make good runs like the 18 min one I commented on.

Bad play is insanely common, and more common then meeting 3 good players in the same DF. Another recent expert, a tank died due to not using CDs or something (no idea, was commenting she was not focused in looking at this kind of thing as a DPS) The tank blamed the healer for the wipe, and the healer blamed the tank for taking too much damage, The tank ragequit logged out of the game and got a replacement. They did the megapull, where you pull end of second boss to last boss (full thing) and did fine. So because of that seemed it was the ragequit tank to blame.

[RokkuEkkusu]

I have a few questions concerning weapons in content (I brought up something similar to the DF thread):

A person enters a Skalla run with mostly 310 gear, but has an ilvl 260 weapon with the intention of gaining light for their anima relic. Do you think this is respectful or disrespectful? Also would you want to go through the potential trouble of asking that person to switch to a higher item level weapon? Finally, in the event the person refuses to switch, would you put up with relic grinder with a weapon that has an item level way below the required item level number?