When will we get the PVP system for PVE ?

[Oscura]

Yeah trimming the fat from our hotbars is only going to have a positive effect. people are naturally afraid of change though, especially when they don't understand the change.

There are plenty of people who understand the change that just don't want it. Saying it's "only going to have a positive effect," is an opinion, not a fact.

The more I read this thread the more I shake my head, the constant "people don't understand," "people are afraid of change," constant awful sarcasm, etc etc is incredibly patronizing. This isn't hard to understand, at all. Just because in your mind, there is no reason to disagree with you, and that your argument is infallible, doesn't mean that it is. Your inability to understand why people disagree with you does not mean that they are simply finding it hard to understand or are "afraid of change." Stop projecting.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

That was your rotation: 1-1-1-1-1-2-2-2-2-2.

... what are you talking about? It seems as though you're conflating the whole combo as a single sequence when that isn't what I nor Miste meant. My current keybinds has me pressing: ALT:1-2-3-4 into 1-2-3-4 to perform both DRG combos, respectively. Therefore, I am pressing four buttons and holding down a fifth. Consolidating them into single buttons would change my keybinds to: ALT: 1-1-1-1 into 1-1-1-1. One button while also holding down a modifier. The latter is how PvP works and I don't like it. Those of us advocating bring that system over to PvE prefer having the former four buttons in lieu of just one.

So one of your solutions to not have skills taking the place of other skills after specific GCD is...to have skills taking place of others skills after specific GCD ?

Do I really have to spell out the differences between a GCD and oGCD? The latter often sit on long CDs doing absolutely nothing. Say Mirage Dive replaced Jump and/or Spineshatter after they were used. It functionally changes little since both oGCD won't be touched for another 30-60s; more than double the length of Mirage Dive's proc duration. GCD combos are something we press every 2.5 seconds barring Skillspeed.

I'd totally be up for this. The game is easy enough pressing loadsa stuff and weaving OGCD's and stuff, can still do the same with less buttons and an actual combo system. It's not going to change or have any impact on the difficulty. Actual PVP is some of the most thrilling and engaging content if you want to be skillfull and tactical.

I think some of you, have the notion that if the PVP combo system comes we will lose access to some skills like in the Wolves Den content and stuff...and that is NOT what OP even mentioned at all.

Please don't condescend. I am fully aware how the change would be implemented nor am I under any false assumptions we will suddenly lose a boatload of skills. We simply don't like it. This has nothing whatsoever to being "afraid of change" or whatever nonsense. So stop telling us how we feel about the OP's idea.

Edit: Post limits are stupid SE

I guess you have...to yourself...since procing Mirage Dive (a CD) from Jump (a CD) is not the suggestion you made. Procing a special jump from a GCD means you'll likely use this jump just after your GCD, and probably before the next GCD. So, in the end, you'll still "change" the layout of your hotbar over the course of a GCD.

Which doesn't change the fact that you'll still press the same number of buttons even if a full combo only use one slot.

No you wouldn't. If they made such a change, you would either weave Jump in earlier, it and the new oGCD have separate CDs or the new oGCD has a proc (Mirage Dive-esque) and won't appear until Jump has been used. There are numerous ways they could implement such an idea, though it is merely that: an idea. And not a fully fleshed out one, I'll admit. Regardless, pressing the same number of buttons hasn't been the issue. It's the idea of taking 1-2-3-4 and reducing it to 1-1-1-1 we dislike. Pressing my Jump keybind twice merely adds an additional use to a keybind I otherwise only use every 30s. When I have multiple oGCDs on cooldowns spanning over a minute, there is plenty to work with there.

[Sandpark]

So is Bard just already unplayable? Is it not an option for such players to place Heavy Shot across multiple slots?

I can't believe people are seriously advocating in this day-and-age for literal, "1-1-1-1-1," button pressing.
If people are that concerned with button bloat we might as well kill most of the oGCDs and instead buff a singular one to be equivalent to the total damage of the ones removed + its own.
Time to make AoE one button for classes that don't already have it, not like it wasn't boring as it is.

One button, two buttons, that's why AoE are boring, there is no combo just cycling rotations for the most part. Or those AoE with no precision placement, just target on enemy and murder legions around it. That's why I usually don't like healing in mmos, most of it consists of targeting a player or their name and spamming add nauseum.

Edit:

I want some cool synergy combo for black mage

1.Lay down oil field

Option:
2.Shoot a fireball across the oil which transforms into a fireball 2, if a tank shield bashes that midway, it accelerates hitting target for high critical damage.
3.Or Set the oil on fire for a fire field so ranged dps can gain a fire damage buff on their ammo
4. Or Set yourself on fire and run into enemies for fire debuff, while under fire the black make can cast a Flare 2
5.Or have a white mage cast aero on the oil and spray it into enemies faces for an enhanced blind.

1B. Lay down an ice field

Option:
2. Have a monk rockbreaker the ice sending splintered shards for a frostbite debuff on surrounding enemies.
3. Or melt the ice yourself and cause hot steam to burn enemies
4. Or allow a astrologian to cast comet or comet 2 when casting through a field of ice.
5. Or scholar to gain enhanced galvanize when fighting in an ice field.

[Reynhart]

Do I really have to spell out the differences between a GCD and oGCD? The latter often sit on long CDs doing absolutely nothing. Say Mirage Dive replaced Jump and/or Spineshatter after they were used.

I guess you have...to yourself...since procing Mirage Dive (a CD) from Jump (a CD) is not the suggestion you made. Procing a special jump from a GCD means you'll likely use this jump just after your GCD, and probably before the next GCD. So, in the end, you'll still "change" the layout of your hotbar over the course of a GCD.

Which doesn't change the fact that you'll still press the same number of buttons even if a full combo only use one slot.

If people are that concerned with button bloat we might as well kill most of the oGCDs and instead buff a singular one to be equivalent to the total damage of the ones removed + its own.

That was overdramatization pages ago in this thread and it still is...having the combo on a single button would change nothing on how you plan your GCDs over the course of the fight...

EDIT : Solidarity against post limit

If they made such a change, you would either weave Jump in earlier, it and the new oGCD have separate CDs or the new oGCD has a proc (Mirage Dive-esque) and won't appear until Jump has been used.

If F&C procs new NewJump in place of Jump, on the condition that jump is used, you can feel forced to use Jump to have access to NewJump, and perhaps you'd want to save Jump for a little later...but that later might mean you can lose the NewJump proc, if it takes too much time. You could end with suboptimal situation by linking abilities that have no relation whatsoever.

By keeping the combo chain as the only "procs" you change nothing on the current dynamic (Well, except, maybe for MNK), since you never want to use a 2nd or 3rd WS by itself, and you also never need to reset the same combo.

[dinnertime]

It's hilarious that people are blowing this out of proportion and say things like "they might as well give each job one button and instantly win the game".

Also, I think consolidating combos would give jobs room for more weaponskills and abilities. It's going to be necessary in the future.

[Oscura]

That was overdramatization pages ago in this thread and it still is...having the combo on a single button would change nothing on how you plan your GCDs over the course of the fight...

It's not overdramatization. If people are so concerned with button bloat as their main reason for consolidating combos, then we might as well consolidate oGCDs too. It's not an extreme in the slightest, there is no reason to have multiple oGCD buttons if we don't need multiple combo buttons. The only reason is preference, which a lot of people have already made clear they do not care about. "You prefer having multiple buttons for combos? Too bad," is the essence of some posts here. You prefer having multiple oGCDs? Too bad. After all, pressing extra oGCDs isn't more difficulty, it's just pressing more buttons, just like with combos.

Just because it is not aligning with your argument or convenient for your viewpoint does not mean it is "overdramatization."

[Malzian]

It's hilarious that people are blowing this out of proportion and say things like "they might as well give each job one button and instantly win the game".

Also, I think consolidating combos would give jobs room for more weaponskills and abilities. It's going to be necessary in the future.

Highlighting the particular section I am going to address.... so, why? Why is it necessary for them to add more weaponskills and abilities? There honestly isn't a reason to continue piling skills on top of what we already have as they have also shown us they have the capability to tier up skills we currently have into different forms and then sync them down again when you're in under-leveled content. For the most part it seems like the toolkits many jobs have currently is pretty flexible and complete, and typically in an MMO they only add skills and abilities to counter specific mechanics they've added to the game... which isn't necessary if they're smart about adding ways to counter those mechanics without adding individual skills which we have already seen with Vril.

If they are smart about it, they can keep the skill bloat way down to a minimum by further leveraging the tier system for skills, by adding new effects through traits or any other variety of methods that don't involve specifically adding X new skills to the jobs every expansion. The only reason these days it's seen as 'necessary' by the population is because that's the meta they're used to seeing. Shiny new skills, flashy new animations, brand new eye candy with new possibilities.... all of which can be accomplished without the need for bloat and without having to further condense the system. They have the technology and I'd rather see them leverage that than blindly add new slot-able skills just because that's what's expected.

[Ghastly]

Sometimes there are things that sound good that when you look at the details are not good. It's like politics, it sounds good but when you actually study it and educate yourself about it it's not a good change/solution.

Just because it sounds good doesn't mean it is.

[Ghastly]

Highlighting the particular section I am going to address.... so, why? Why is it necessary for them to add more weaponskills and abilities? There honestly isn't a reason to continue piling skills on top of what we already have as they have also shown us they have the capability to tier up skills we currently have into different forms and then sync them down again when you're in under-leveled content. For the most part it seems like the toolkits many jobs have currently is pretty flexible and complete, and typically in an MMO they only add skills and abilities to counter specific mechanics they've added to the game... which isn't necessary if they're smart about adding ways to counter those mechanics without adding individual skills which we have already seen with Vril.

If they are smart about it, they can keep the skill bloat way down to a minimum by further leveraging the tier system for skills, by adding new effects through traits or any other variety of methods that don't involve specifically adding X new skills to the jobs every expansion. The only reason these days it's seen as 'necessary' by the population is because that's the meta they're used to seeing. Shiny new skills, flashy new animations, brand new eye candy with new possibilities.... all of which can be accomplished without the need for bloat and without having to further condense the system. They have the technology and I'd rather see them leverage that than blindly add new slot-able skills just because that's what's expected.

This is actually an incredibly great solution. To evolve some skills like they did with the healers. Either that or the skill tree idea where you choose the skill you want that is similar to another but has different use but similar potency. Or both of these ideas together I really like.

[Reynhart]

If people are so concerned with button bloat as their main reason for consolidating combos, then we might as well consolidate oGCDs too. It's not an extreme in the slightest, there is no reason to have multiple oGCD buttons if we don't need multiple combo buttons.

Except combos are already linked together, not oGCDs. Fusing the combos will change nothing about how you plan and use them.

Fusing oGCD...like, for example fusing Blood Weapon and Blood Price and only change them according to Grit would prevent you from using one of them, then switching stance, and using the other. It would significantly reduce how you plan your whole rotation.

The most blatant proof of that is that, were you to look at fflogs timeline, having combos on a single button would give you the exact same timeline. Can you say the same about fusing oGCDs ?