Built-in Parsers

[SDaemon]

snip

No, they don't, those 7 other players are not making up any difference. If each DPS needs to do 4400 personal DPS in order to safely clear the encounter's DPS requirements and 3 of those DPS do 5500 and 1 does 4400. Where are they making up the difference? Could that 1 DPS improve and get to 5500 like the rest? Sure, but why would you kick that player when they are doing their fair share of the DPS requirements burden?

Not to mention, your scenario doesn't really work because if another player can slot in and suddenly you have a clear, damage was the issue.

That wasn't my scenario though. Conversely, if the group slots another player and they still don't clear then the damage was not the issue, despite that player before doing their fair share of the DPS.

[Bobs]

This is exactly why I don't do "end game content," in this game.

If you want/need to be ranked play a MOBA or a FPS.

[akaneakki]

No

Problem with players in this game is because they get told it's fine to keep being shit. When it's clearly not. You keep breeding those bad players, once more and more players tell others it's fine to be ''carried''.
It's like having a bully talking shit and since you are his or her friend, you keep saying it's fine. When do people actually learn to get better? Being told? Absoluttely, the second thing is, they need to be told in good manner. If it does happen and their response is bad, it's their issue and not ours. Earlier I was in a susano extreme where i was second dps as tank, why is a TANK second dps?

This is exactly why I don't do "end game content," in this game.

If you want/need to be ranked play a MOBA or a FPS.

You don't need to be ''ranked'' or ''hardcore'' to even raid in this game. There are dps checks, but there is a difference being at 3.5k dps vs 4k.

[Fourbestintoner]

I will never understand the people that aren't willing to learn their job, but want to learn savage or extreme trials. :thinking:

[DeaconMoore]

I never said that. You insinuated publicly available parses would essentially open the flood gates for toxic behavior. It won't, because people who are toxic don't need to bring up ACT to go off on someone. If I really want to call anyone out, I'll just say "I watched your rotation and you're doing it wrong." They can say I'm parsing all they fancy but GMs won't do a thing unless you specifically mention numbers. Believe me, I have seen some very passive aggressive to downright hostile responses yet they aren't bringing up parse numbers even if it's obvious they have them. Just a few weeks back someone accused a friend of buying her Savage clears because she kept dying in Ala Mhigo due to lag spikes. Like I said, you don't need to run a parse to be a jerk nor will parses necessarily make people jerks.

*sigh*
I never said an official parser would suddenly make people more "toxic". I said dps call outs would happen more and openly. You even acknowledge that as things are now you can indeed get into trouble talking about someones dps numbers, that has a chilling effect. Not every silent kick is for the giggles.

Snip

LOL Oh man. You really are a sadist aren't you? Have you ever actually tried to learn how to properly play your class with constant wipes and waiting around to refill your ranks? You really want people to be learning their stuff under those conditions? That's just pure evil mate. You need a stable safe environment to properly experiment and perfect before you head into the chaos to make it work. Parsers need to be on outside of just endgame content.

Parsers outside of endgame are great for learning. Parsers in endgame are great for seeing performance. You don't just up and decide to run a marathon out of the blue and not have a heart attack. You spend time training for it. Don't abuse your party mates and waste their time learning to play your class while everyone is trying to learn the fight.

[SDaemon]

Problem with players in this game is because they get told it's fine to keep being shit. When it's clearly not. You keep breeding those bad players, once more and more players tell others it's fine to be ''carried''.
It's like having a bully talking shit and since you are his or her friend, you keep saying it's fine. When do people actually learn to get better? Being told? Absoluttely, the second thing is, they need to be told in good manner. If it does happen and their response is bad, it's their issue and not ours. Earlier I was in a susano extreme where i was second dps as tank, why is a TANK second dps?

"No". You replace my text with "No". Okay, you know what, I may not be seeing eye to eye with Bourne right now but I can at least respect her responses, I honestly can't extend the same to you at the moment.

As far as your comment goes though, where in my comment am I saying players should be told they are doing great when their numbers don't even meet the "requirement" to clear?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

No, they don't, those 7 other players are not making up any difference. If each DPS needs to do 4400 personal DPS in order to safely clear the encounter's DPS requirements and 3 of those DPS do 5500 and 1 does 4400. Where are they making up the difference? Could that 1 DPS improve and get to 5500 like the rest? Sure, but why would you kick that player when they are doing their fair share of the DPS requirements burden?

Yes, they are. Now the fight takes longer because one player isn't performing comparably to the others. If it's a question of ilvl difference or lack of experience in the fight, then it's understandable. If they simply can't be bothered to improve, why should other players have to carry anyone? I reiterate, if all seven other players have this mentality, you may no longer meet the DPS checks or have to deal with mechanics you could otherwise skip. Everyone should be held to an equal stand. You blatantly admit one player gets to skate by doing the bare minimum provided DPS checks are met. I just can't agree with that mindset.

[HyoMinPark]

No, they don't, those 7 other players are not making up any difference. If each DPS needs to do 4400 personal DPS in order to safely clear the encounter's DPS requirements and 3 of those DPS do 5500 and 1 does 4400. Where are they making up the difference? Could that 1 DPS improve and get to 5500 like the rest? Sure, but why would you kick that player when they are doing their fair share of the DPS requirements burden?

That wasn't my scenario though. Conversely, if the group slots another player and they still don't clear then the damage was not the issue, despite that player before doing their fair share of the DPS.

There are two potential paths for your “scenario”: a DPS pushing 4,400 DPS who is trying their best, and a person pushing 4,400 DPS who is not even trying.

It’s different if the person with 4,400 DPS is trying their hardest to push out the most damage they can do. Are they undergeared compared to the rest of the group? Are they eating food? Using pots? Trying their absolute hardest? Then that’s fine. But are they not eating food, not using pots, and just, in general, being lazy about their performance? That’s not okay.

If the player refuses to improve their performance, though, and is okay with just being the “bare minimum,” if the rest of the group would rather have someone that is not okay with just being the “bare minimum”—someone else that pushes themselves to do the absolute best they can do—then they are allowed to kick the person who is choosing to be okay with, for lack of a more eloquent phrase, being carried by the rest of the group. Now, most would hopefully—if these built-in parsers were public—say something, and try to bring the person’s attention to their performance, and hopefully prompt some sort of effort of trying. But if the person still refuses to try, why should the other 7 carry them? Why should they deal with a person who doesn’t want to try?

[Kazgrel]

I will never understand the people that aren't willing to learn their job, but want to learn savage or extreme trials. :thinking:

"Why learn when you can get carried?" would be what those people are really thinking.

Part of me does wish this game had a built-in parser. Sadly, there are those who will use it as a tool to boot people because they think they could do more dps or whatever rather than use it as a tool for (self) improvement.

[Taika]

LOL Oh man. You really are a sadist aren't you? Have you ever actually tried to learn how to properly play your class with constant wipes and waiting around to refill your ranks? You really want people to be learning their stuff under those conditions? That's just pure evil mate. You need a stable safe environment to properly experiment and perfect before you head into the chaos to make it work. Parsers need to be on outside of just endgame content.

You've completely lost me. I've learned every single piece of endgame content in this game (outside of Ultimate which I haven't even tried yet) in a group that's been parsed, step by step. I don't understand what you refer to by constant wipes and refilling my ranks - I specifically said people shouldn't be replaced because of DPS from learning parties since it's not really possible to be holding those back (unless the learning is about a phase with enrage).

Edit: Did you somehow understand that I'd advice people to learn their basic rotations in extreme or Savage fights? Of course not, that's what SSS dummies and other training dummies are for (and SSS already works as a parser for that). I'm talking about learning to optimise your rotation for a specific fight. That can't be done outside of that specific fight, and parser is a great help in that.