Built-in Parsers

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

In a high pve game, yes it's needed.

Preferred, yes. Needed? I still scrutinize that, but I'm not one to rock the boat for no reason.

I got no issues with parsing, and assuming people don't misuse it, I'd welcome an official one. I'd even welcome some kind of console option. But I have every issue with the limited mindset of thinking console players are disadvantaged for not having it.

[akaneakki]

Preferred, yes. Needed? I still scrutinize that, but I'm not one to rock the boat for no reason..

Let me ask you this question. I read a while back you did a mch opener or rotation before a guide came out. I can quote you on it soon as I find it. I asume MCH is your main, correct? On a scale from 1 to 10 how good do you think you are on MCH compare to lets say top 20 mchs? The very good ones.


Since I've asked that, I'm looking forward to see what you say. Then, I agree, ps4 players can play well but then again, it's becaue of a help from people with a parser in the game. SMN I had back in gordias and midas raid was amazing and he was on ps4. He only asked if his dps was lower or higher in some places of a fight, asuming he wanted to know what he changed did better or less. If nobody had a parser, how could one know they improved or not? But again I'm waiting for your reply. And I know you aren't a NO person for parser, I can tell but also there is a disadvantage for ps4 players NOT having a parser.

[MoroMurasaki]

There is a lot of small arguments going on against reasons to have a parser right now but can anyone provide a reason that is not purely antecdotal for parsers to not be officially implimented?

If I'm not mistaken the only actual argument is "but toxicity" which, whether people like it or not, is not definitely going to increase with official parsers.

Also, as an aside, the idea that PS4 players aren't disadvantaged by their inability to run a parser is just factually false. Knowledge is power and going into any situation with less knowledge than the people around you is by definition disadvantageous. You could say they aren't crippled by it I suppose but to say we are on an even playing field to people with parsers is, again, just not true.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

This is news to me, honestly. Last time I did anything rotation-wise on the PvE side of the house was early Heavensward, and to my knowledge that was merely noting that the old 1-2-1-3-2-3 I figured out on my own (and without a parser! Le gasp!) As for the top 20, I honestly don't know them. I don't even really care. Why? Because I don't care how well they do. I care how well I do. I care that I know the fight and can perform at my best more than anyone else.

Sounds self-justifying? Maybe, but really, if I had the time to mind someone else's performance, I have the time to refine mine. And I do that. A lot. It's practically a daily ritual now. Don't get me wrong, I've been parsed before. I recently even asked a static member to parse me, and the only thing I took from that was my numbers, with what I was doing at the time were good. Top 20? Ha, probably never. Low enough to drag my team down? Not at all. Will I let that number take a hit to ensure a mechanic isn't failed or we don't end up in a worse situation in an instance? Without a second thought.

This is the finger-waving part where someone can say, "see? You wouldn't have had to have him parse you if you could do it yourself!" And you're right. But that was more of a moment of self-dobut at the height of all the "MCH is weak/lolMCH/No MCH, no SMN" crap at that time. Raise your hand if you've never had your confidence shaken ever. That said, turns out I was doing just fine, as he confirmed. Oh dear, however did I manage to do it right before that fateful parse? It's not like I practiced and figured things out or talked to other MCHs that I know and trust. Nah, that's not it. . .

All sarcasm aside, I'll level with you: it IS because of people with parsers that solid information is available (otherwise it's all feelycraft), and I'm quite grateful for it. But having never waited for others to tell me how to do it and instead just trying things out and learning by pushing myself, then making any necessary adjustments once that information is available, that is why I feel no disadvantage. And that's why I say anyone can do it, PC or console, parser or not.

[Sigiria]

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I think he came onto you from what I pointed. According to all the data accumulated on MCH players parses you're perfoming on average at 19% of your job max damage potential.
I agree prioritizing the mechanics over your dps is the safest way to ensure your victory in a fight, and if your whole team can rack up the dps to clear the encouter who cares about the numbers. But since the topic is having a notion of how much damage you do, if you thought you were performing well in that area you were mistaken.

[MoroMurasaki]

snip

As much as I appreciate the lengthy reply I feel like you aren't understanding what the word disadvantage means.

Before anyone gets mad at me for being rude and insulting someone's intelligence I swear that is not the perspective I'm approaching this from. I only say this because I've seen several other people present you with perfectly reasonable posts about how, essentially, disadvantage is inherently present with less information available. You have stuck to your word choice. I don't know if it's stubbornness (again, not being mean, I am quite stubborn myself) or feeling backed into a corner or sometging else entirely but you seem like an intelligent, reasonable person and it frustrates me that you won't just acknowledge the fallacy here.

I agree there have been posts in this thread that have painted the disadvantage PS4 players face by being unable to parse as greater than it is. I agree it is quite possible to do really well without a parser if you spend a lot of time and effort honing your rotation. I even agree that you are undoubtably outperforming many MCH's who run parsers due to the time and effort you've sunk into the class. I have no way to know for sure, I won't be pulling fflogs.

What I can't agree with is the notion that a player with the same general skill and dedication could not do what you do considerably faster with a parser and, eventually, surpass you in effectiveness when it comes to high-end gameplay.

You are disadvantaged. You can choose not to see it if it makes you more comfortable but it is an objective fact. Best thing you can do now is try to even the playing field by letting us all have access to the same data.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I'm not against a parsing option for console players. I've openly noted that. And I fully understand that a parser can allow someone to perhaps learn what I learned and maybe faster or with less difficulty. I encourage this, believe it or not.

I think the big difference here is what we see as a disadvantage. If it were just impossible to reach a level of skill without a parser that a player with one had, that would indisputably be a disadvantage. While I may be proud that I can do what I can do without one, I'm not so stubborn as to outright refuse to use one or refuse others.

I think he came onto you from what I pointed. According to all the data accumulated on MCH players parses you're perfoming on average at 19% of your job max damage potential.

Only 19?

Oh.

That's my grand reaction to that. Sure I could nitpick and point out circumstances or things I know behind the numbers that others don't, but given that my team and I cleared what was uploaded and I neither dragged them down nor wiped them (I did once recently. I was tired. It wasn't uploaded), I can sleep well at night besides.

Let's also not be coy about hidden logs, or the ones that don't get uploaded because they're bad or don't paint the picture we want others to see. Hell, I joked about it in one of my last videos because I'm hardly bothered by it, and because I'm not even the one uploading them (I mean if I were, I'd do like everyone else and only put up the good ones).

That said, since were throwing people's numbers out there (you know, one of those things that thing SE remains gunshy on adding parsers because of) do tell me you brought enough for the rest of the class?

[MoroMurasaki]

I'm not against a parsing option for console players. I've openly noted that. And I fully understand that a parser can allow someone to perhaps learn what I learned and maybe faster or with less difficulty. I encourage this, believe it or not.

I think the big difference here is what we see as a disadvantage. If it were just impossible to reach a level of skill without a parser that a player with one had, that would indisputably be a disadvantage. While I may be proud that I can do what I can do without one, I'm not so stubborn as to outright refuse to use one or refuse others.

But definitions aren't subject to feelings or "how we see" things. The dictionary defines disadvantage as the "absence or deprivation of advantage or equality" which is literally exactly what is being discussed here. PS4 players do not have access to a parser. A parser helps you do things better faster which is undoubtably advantageous. It is the absence of that advantage or equality (with PC players) and therefor by definition disadvantageous.

I wouldn't care about your poor word choice if it wasn't helping trolls argue against what I feel would be the largest positive change to happen in this game since I started playing it. You're providing them with a token console player who says "nah, its cool, everything is fine on console" when that is objecrively untrue.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

But definitions aren't subject to feelings or "how we see" things. The dictionary defines disadvantage as the "absence or deprivation of advantage or equality" which is literally exactly what is being discussed here. PS4 players do not have access to a parser. A parser helps you do things better faster which is undoubtably advantageous. It is the absence of that advantage or equality (with PC players) and therefor by definition disadvantageous.

I wouldn't care about your poor word choice if it wasn't helping trolls argue against what I feel would be the largest positive change to happen in this game since I started playing it. You're providing them with a token console player who says "nah, its cool, everything is fine on console" when that is objecrively untrue.

Let's break it down to a simple problem solving formula. Ask yourself this:

Can you do it?
Can you do it whether on PC or console?
Can you do it on either whether you have a parser or not?

We're not talking about "can you do it better or faster?", we've covered that. I mean, until doing it better or faster bears some kind of notable merit or reward, it's entirely secondary to those main points. If the answer to those questions, all three, is yes, then I ask where your disadvantage is? Not the definition, not secondary factors, just that baseline right there. If any one of those is a no, then wherein lies the disadvantage that prevents you from doing it? I can say that if any one of those were a no for me, or for console players universally, I'd likely be the loudest complaint.

Out of topic, I've seen some of your videos and they can be funny

Thank you. That truly means a lot to hear.