Built-in Parsers

[DeaconMoore]

Pointless remark. Rotations are simply the controls you need to play the game now, you shouldn't be asking players on their own to have to research them in third party guides any more than you should be expected to look up on gamefaqs how a game's control scheme works. The fact that they aren't, and that you need both to look up on out-of-game websites the proper sequence of moves to be competent, as well as needing to scrape the combat logs to get accurate feedback of your performance, shouldn't be tolerated in MMOs any more. SE can solve this by simply setting in stone the rotations in game, and providing more accurate feedback in game by things like animations, combo chain remarks, and more about your performance.

They don't because they want players to figure it out, but that day has passed in MMO history.

But as the goal is to maximize if they are handing us everything why bother with multiple buttons? We could just have one and ensure maximum results every time.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Can't believe this is still going. . .

It's not about what information it can or can't provide.
It's not about whether it will help or not.
It's not even about how it will allow bad people to do bad things, or not allow lazy players to be lazy.

Biggest reason we're not likely to get it is because the possibility of even a personal parser being reverse engineered and used as it was NOT intended. And that's straight from The Man himself. He knows who he's dealing with. Are we all likely to do that? No. But let's not act like it's neither impossible, nor wouldn't happen.

This isn't shortsightedness on SE's part. This is actually them looking ahead and preventing a bigger problem with a small fix.

. . .Wish they'd have done that with the Feast chat ban. . .

[akaneakki]

Can't believe this is still going. . .. . .Wish they'd have done that with the Feast chat ban. . .

The ironic part is you talk like you agree with him on EVERYTHING yet I've seen you disagree with some of his other statements on other topics. Many disagree with what he thinks about parser? I do so, he believe it's gonna break community down. FF14 community isn't all white knight as people claim it to be ya know. Plus a parser harrasment will be harrasment. Also this is also why people blindly get kicked these days, who's that to blame? The party leader? Hell no, it's the players fault for slacking in the first place. This is where the anti parser people comes in and say: Oh hey YOU HAVE TO carry them. No we don't :>

[Kacho_Nacho]

The ironic part is you talk like you agree with him on EVERYTHING yet I've seen you disagree with some of his other statements on other topics. Many disagree with what he thinks about parser? I do so, he believe it's gonna break community down. FF14 community isn't all white knight as people claim it to be ya know. Plus a parser harrasment will be harrasment. Also this is also why people blindly get kicked these days, who's that to blame? The party leader? Hell no, it's the players fault for slacking in the first place. This is where the anti parser people comes in and say: Oh hey YOU HAVE TO carry them. No we don't :>

Not sure why you think we anti-parsers are saying you have to carry slackers. We aren't.

Also, we all understand the FFXIV community isn't a bunch of saints. It's a case where people cannot agree if the benefits of having a parser outweigh the negative impact of having them on the game as a whole.

[MoroMurasaki]

Not sure why you think we anti-parsers are saying you have to carry slackers. We aren't.

Also, we all understand the FFXIV community isn't a bunch of saints. It's a case where people cannot agree if the benefits of having a parser outweigh the negative impact of having them on the game as a whole.

I feel like this (the carrying comment) is being implied by some people on the anti-parser side of things though. Specifically the idea that if a group fails something it is by default the entire group's fault.

There are certainly many ways that one person can wipe almost any given raid, whether intentional or not, and this mentality that just because I've been grouped up with someone who doesn't know/care/care to learn enough to clear a specific piece of content means I am responsible for their shortcomings is where at least some of this tension is coming from.

Let me be clear, I have said multiple times in this forum and on the healer forums that I play healers primarily because of their ability to carry a poor group/player through most content. I pride myself on being able to salvage things that otherwise would have been a death or wipe. I am not looking for parsers in an effort to kick tons of players from my groups. It would certainly allow myself (or any reasonably experienced player) more insight into what's going on, specifically in a situation where things are going south quickly, to be able to better advise our teammates on how they can help us fix it.

Would the answer sometimes be to kick someone? I'm sure it would, but if that turns a disband into a clear for the rest of us I am okay with it.

I feel like this has gone from a discussion on parsers to one on the general health and kindness of the community, on that front I think we do pretty well for ourselves. Are there some assholes? Sure. Most people want to help though. Keeling parsers out of the game out of fear someone might use them to be rude makes no more sense than removing party chat because someone might be rude there. Yes, sure, they might... but doesn't it do vastly more good than harm?

[akaneakki]

I feel like this (the carrying comment) is being implied by some people on the anti-parser side of things though. Specifically the idea that if a group fails something it is by default the entire group's fault.

Yup this pretty much and also say it's fine to slack because ''it's just a game''. Look at my signature, the guy is asking why someone would wipe 10000 times over again and again when the purpose of a heavy PVE game wants you to CLEAR the stuff. Just because 1 dude finds it funny wiping all over again and again, doesn't mean its fun for everyone else. Do people honestly think it's fine to wipe an entire group over all the time, because 1 guy feel it's fine? It's not. You either play on the same level or nearly the same level or you simple aren't the person with the group.

[BigRed5392]

I feel like this (the carrying comment) is being implied by some people on the anti-parser side of things though. Specifically the idea that if a group fails something it is by default the entire group's fault.

it is that is how teamwork/group games work. It is a domino effect.

If someone makes a mistake, recover from it.

What ppl do is vindictive stuff, "oh you made a mistake im not healing you" so that is 1 less person dealing damage, which makes the mob slower to die causing the tank to take more damage. causing healers to over work. All healer had to do was cure the dead person before they died.

instead of letting hp stay low heal people up. Job is to heal so... heal.

everyone should take responsibility for a fight going south. as the point is to work as a team, not solo in a group.

teamwork in rpg/mmorpg is about covering each others weakness and promoting each other strengths. How come in this same game the JP do this, yet NA don't?

[Shurrikhan]

Biggest reason we're not likely to get it is because the possibility of even a personal parser being reverse engineered and used as it was NOT intended.

So, we figure out from a reverse engineered parser what a given abilities %AP and %WD contributions are? Wait, no, potency already standardizes that...

Our actual damage? ...That's shown on the screen and in our battle logs.

Damage rate? ...Can technically be calculated by hand via timestamps...

Our in-encounter crit rates? ...DoT ticks aside, that's in our battle logs and can be calculated by hand.

PPM? We use true RNG, not RPPM, so this is not estimable outside of the same information we get from our tooltips.

The actual effects of our secondary stats? We already have these spreadsheeted, and would transparency really be so abhorrent? (Also, even this has no reason to be revealed by a parser.)

I can see why SE wouldn't want to open up a slew of api's that third-party addons can then use to check for and report incoming attacks, etc., in what few ways they cannot already (e.g. from /say or /yell cues, though we already have the tech to do that, just no update), but a parser is just not the gateway for any of those.

Take a look at the breakdowns for WoW's own competition with its addons: different devices reveal distinctly different components. All that a parser can reveal, has already been revealed -- not even by third-party parsers, but by the game itself.

[Dualgunner]

Can't believe this is still going. . .

It's not about what information it can or can't provide.
It's not about whether it will help or not.
It's not even about how it will allow bad people to do bad things, or not allow lazy players to be lazy.

Biggest reason we're not likely to get it is because the possibility of even a personal parser being reverse engineered and used as it was NOT intended. And that's straight from The Man himself. He knows who he's dealing with. Are we all likely to do that? No. But let's not act like it's neither impossible, nor wouldn't happen.

This isn't shortsightedness on SE's part. This is actually them looking ahead and preventing a bigger problem with a small fix.

. . .Wish they'd have done that with the Feast chat ban. . .

hell i even said that and all ppl want are links XD

Yes, I want links. Citations to back up your statements and knowledge of what they could possibly reverse engineer from a parser.

HyoMin has a great response too: give it a read.

So, we figure out from a reverse engineered parser what a given abilities %AP and %WD contributions are? Wait, no, potency already standardizes that...

Our actual damage? ...That's shown on the screen and in our battle logs.

Damage rate? ...Can technically be calculated by hand via timestamps...

Our in-encounter crit rates? ...DoT ticks aside, that's in our battle logs and can be calculated by hand.

PPM? We use true RNG, not RPPM, so this is not estimable outside of the same information we get from our tooltips.

The actual effects of our secondary stats? We already have these spreadsheeted, and would transparency really be so abhorrent? (Also, even this has no reason to be revealed by a parser.)

I can see why SE wouldn't want to open up a slew of api's that third-party addons can then use to check for and report incoming attacks, etc., in what few ways they cannot already (e.g. from /say or /yell cues, though we already have the tech to do that, just no update), but a parser is just not the gateway for any of those.

Take a look at the breakdowns for WoW's own competition with its addons: different devices reveal distinctly different components. All that a parser can reveal, has already been revealed -- not even by third-party parsers, but by the game itself.

[BigRed5392]

Can't believe this is still going. . .

It's not about what information it can or can't provide.
It's not about whether it will help or not.
It's not even about how it will allow bad people to do bad things, or not allow lazy players to be lazy.

Biggest reason we're not likely to get it is because the possibility of even a personal parser being reverse engineered and used as it was NOT intended. And that's straight from The Man himself. He knows who he's dealing with. Are we all likely to do that? No. But let's not act like it's neither impossible, nor wouldn't happen.

This isn't shortsightedness on SE's part. This is actually them looking ahead and preventing a bigger problem with a small fix.

. . .Wish they'd have done that with the Feast chat ban. . .

hell i even said that and all ppl want are links XD