Built-in Parsers

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

. . .so console players are inherently disadvantaged and uninformed. . .

Except we aren't.

This may be an unpopular opinion, but do something enough and you'll develop a sense of whether you're doing it right or not. In time, you'll even learn to do it better, provided you aren't simply putting in a token effort.

Now then, yes, a LOT of information made readily available is achieved through pioneers with parsers, and that's great. But once again, I (and perhaps I can only speak for myself) have never run into a situation where I couldn't clear something or struggled or was disadvantaged purely for not having/being able to parse. I have learned a lot of things the hard way, and at times seen a mechanic once and said "oh that's just X mechanic with new paint", then never had issue with it ever again. The key there is the effort that went into it, though some might say it's more than necessary. . . I counter that by saying I've run stuff that groups had on farm, and watched just how lost they were without ACT callouts. Meanwhile, having done it enough, or simply paying attention, I can handle things accordingly.

I want to clarify again: I'm not saying parsers aren't helpful. They ARE. They AREN'T 100% necessary, console or PC. If they were, we'd have a tool in place already. But we console players aren't inherently disadvantaged for not having the option available. Not if we make the effort to be good.

[Deithwen]

snip

But having to make extra effort to acheive the same isn't the very definition of disadvantage ?

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

But having to make extra effort to acheive the same isn't the very definition of disadvantage ?

Is the effort really that extra? I don't recall working any harder to learn content than anyone else. That "extra" work was the practice I put in, and the time I personally put into making sure I can play my job well, regardless of the content. PC players, parser or not, have done the same thing and the ones that wanted to play well very likely put in the same effort, wouldn't you agree?

And that's what a disadvantage is. Can a bare handed person defeat someone with a gun? Definitely! You only need to spend 15+ years studying martial arts in order to defeat someone who picked up a gun 15 minutes ago.

Of course this is a completely hyperbolic example, but the fact remains the same, I have acess to a tool that you don't, this simple fact puts me in an advantage. Can you work around it? Sure you can, but you still worked around a disadvantage.

By this logic, I should never outperform anyone with access to a parser, right? And yet I have before. So what made the difference? Personal effort and skill, or the tool? Once again, there's nothing wrong with having the tool, but it's pretty well established that a good craftsman can produce good work whether his tools are top of the line or not. If you choose to look at being on console as not having top of the line tools, that's fine. I'm simply saying I (and again I suppose I should only speak for myself) have never been disadvantaged for not having a parser.

[Nezia]

By this logic, I should never outperform anyone with access to a parser, right?

Now now... It's surprising how you ask something like this when I literally wrote:

Can a bare handed person defeat someone with a gun? Definitely!

And

Can you work around it? Sure you can

[Sigiria]

Except we aren't.

This may be an unpopular opinion, but do something enough and you'll develop a sense of whether you're doing it right or not. In time, you'll even learn to do it better, provided you aren't simply putting in a token effort.

Yeah, but see that's the point, you've got a "feel" that what you're doing is right, but thanks to the information the parser provide you'd have a definitive idea if it's just a feel or not.
And don't take this the wrong way but there's traces of how you performed and your feel is off, you've got a lot of room for improvement. If you had a parser you would have know that without someone else having to point it out.

Now, I'm the first to say that before worrying about your numbers you should worry about getting the fight right if you are not hitting any dps check wall. But if you're going to argue that a feel is enough to know how you're performing, dps wise, then I really don't believe it is.

[NovaLevossida]

Except we aren't.

This may be an unpopular opinion, but do something enough and you'll develop a sense of whether you're doing it right or not. In time, you'll even learn to do it better, provided you aren't simply putting in a token effort.

Now then, yes, a LOT of information made readily available is achieved through pioneers with parsers, and that's great. But once again, I (and perhaps I can only speak for myself) have never run into a situation where I couldn't clear something or struggled or was disadvantaged purely for not having/being able to parse. I have learned a lot of things the hard way, and at times seen a mechanic once and said "oh that's just X mechanic with new paint", then never had issue with it ever again. The key there is the effort that went into it, though some might say it's more than necessary. . . I counter that by saying I've run stuff that groups had on farm, and watched just how lost they were without ACT callouts. Meanwhile, having done it enough, or simply paying attention, I can handle things accordingly.

I want to clarify again: I'm not saying parsers aren't helpful. They ARE. They AREN'T 100% necessary, console or PC. If they were, we'd have a tool in place already. But we console players aren't inherently disadvantaged for not having the option available. Not if we make the effort to be good.

Saying that you aren't disadvantaged by the lack of access to parser on console versus PC having access is like saying you're not disadvantaged by chopping down a tree with a hatchet while someone else uses a chainsaw and modern tech. One group has certain tools and the other does not. That's an inherent disadvantage, and saying that you overcome the discrepancy does not actually speak against the disadvantage existing.

I don't need those programs to clear content, same as you. I am, however, irritated at the discrepancy between the two portions of the player base and how SE is handling that. Or, to be more accurate, not handling it.

[Dualgunner]

1 mistake from 1 person doesn't cause a wipe. the whole group needs to make mistakes to cause a wipe.

O3S. A player stands on the MT's square during books: mt is now dead and ot needs to tank both apanda and Hali. Healers get mt back up but ot cannot survive critical hit and apanda and dies. Weaknessed mt takes both as best he can but heals going out can't match damage coming in. He dies, healers die, then dps die.

There: 1 person screwing the whole group over. O3S is full of stuff like that btw. One person screws up animal farm? Makes everything harder. Clocks? Can kill lots of people. Vines? If attached to the right person. 1 person can eat every single vuln down book before Spellblade Holy. One person can stack their keep away in the stack marker. Of all the scenarios listed only one is being a deliberate jackass.

"But that's savage" conveniently also the content people are talking about right now.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Even despite the "feel" the same numbers being parsed are right in front of your face.

No, you can't calculate it like a parser can, and RNG IS a thing, but let's not act like the same information being calculated isn't right there in front of our eyes, or that we can't see that something works better one way than another.

Once again, I'm not saying parsers aren't useful. I am saying if they were THAT necessary, lest you be at such a heavy disadvantage for not having it, we would have an option in place already for the console players. That said, there are console players who've somehow managed to play for 4 years already without one and do perfectly fine.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

They're not handling it because it's still not necessary (Having/using a parser, that is). If it ever somehow became necessary, then they'd implement it, don't you think?

And I say I'm not disadvantaged because I have never been at a loss for not having it. I'm really not making that up. And before someone tries to rebuttal with it; am I the best [insert role here]? Nah, not by a long shot. Have I made mistakes? Plenty. Raise your hand if you haven't, please. Am I competent, able to play at a high level, and able to successfully clear any content I actively try to? Absolutely, and without a parser. . . Where's my disadvantage for being a console player, exactly?

Let's please stop trying to paint such extremes here. If it were in fact a disadvantage to not have access to it at all, then console players would be notably worse, wouldn't they? Either I'm some kind of statistical impossibility (which I strongly doubt) or maybe - just maybe - it's actually possible to play and play well without NEEDING a parser. Would you not agree?

We're still blowing up this generalization?

I'll be rude enough to say it: That's kinda all this thread is now. Generalizations.

[akaneakki]

They're not handling it because it's still not necessary (Having/using a parser, that is). If it ever somehow became necessary, then they'd implement it, don't you think?

In a high pve game, yes it's needed.