Built-in Parsers

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Nah, everyone knows how I feel about the chat ban. I meant that in terms of "looking ahead to prevent a bigger problem with a small fix", though the Feast thing was, in fact, the opposite. A big fix for a small problem without thinking ahead to the bigger problems it created (and still didn't fix.)

I'm not saying anyone has to carry anyone at all. I'm really not even looking at all the what ifs or extreme cases. I mean, I've seen someone talk of leaving the instance because the healer (someone I know) "wasn't healing", yet they were both healing more and dealing more damage than the person saying that. I know this *because* of the parse they showed after the fact.

I'm hardly demonizing parsers at all. I'm quite neutral about them, given that I know the benefits of them, but I'm on PS4 and have never been at any serious loss these 4 years without it. Still, I can't deny if given the opportunity and means, someone, somewhere will do exactly what Yoshi P mentioned. Hell, people were trying to use Stone, Sky, Sea as a legit measurement for a time. (It's still funny.)

[TamiaBlack]

I've seen some games getting ruined by making parsers official. The community gets very toxic and ruins the game for people that don't play on a high level.

Even in contents, where damage is not really that neccessary and is not responsible for sucess, but only for time saving.

In my opinion the unofficial parsers are good, for static teams to make their progress. If someone is really slacking, you can notice it even without a parser.

So I do not really see positive effects of an public parser, only negatives. People get flamed or kicked for no reason, people stop having fun before they can even reach a good level and the community will get smaller.

Aside of Savage content, I see barely situations where DPS is the reason for a fail. The biggest issues are players that are too toxic, and mostly when they ragequit, the dungeon/Primae/Alliance works with the replacement.

If someone continously feels uncomfortable with public groups, he should stop it and go with premade groups. In a public group everyone should have the courage and character, to be patient and kind. And if neccessary leave it with a "won't work out, sorry and bye"

Anyhow, I would accept it, if a parser is only able to be turned on in premade groups or is only showing your own DPS.

[DaulBan]

I've seen some games getting ruined by making parsers official. The community gets very toxic and ruins the game for people that don't play on a high level.

If you don't mind me asking, which game was this?

[LalaRu]

If you don't mind me asking, which game was this?

I saw something that is not parsing but gear scoring, in wow, and people were kicked out for any silly reason because the "overall score" wasn't good enough. I don't think the same people, that kicks out others for not scoring good, will stop doing that when numbers comes out from a parser.

Returning to XIV, today we see Susano parties with i330 req, and o1s "fflogs" run for the epeen, so it is evident that making a parser "official" will unleash all the worse from people that today are refraining doing that, because parsers aren't to be mentioned in the game.

Last but not least, all the controversy this very thread shows off, is another reason to backup the "no parser" policy.

[DaulBan]

Returning to XIV, today we see Susano parties with i330 req, and o1s "fflogs" run for the epeen, so it is evident that making a parser "official" will unleash all the worse from people that today are refraining doing that, because parsers aren't to be mentioned in the game.

Last but not least, all the controversy this very thread shows off, is another reason to backup the "no parser" policy.

I mean, if your theory is that people might change their behaviour if parsing becomes 'legal' so to speak I'd say that the i330 susano farms and the fflogs runs are already just a part of the game right now. I don't know how making a parser legal would change what you literally described as something that happens in game right now. Raw min-DPS to meet or else you get kicked? Maybe? But if that's how someone wants to run their party all the power to them, though a lot of people wouldn't join just because that looks sketchy as hell.

And as always just because a topic is controversial in one place doesn't mean it's as controversial in another place. Unless SE held a referendum we can't actually make a solid statement about the opinions of the community from ~30 people bickering in a thread when there are thousands playing the game. The more realistic reason we'll never get a parser is that Yoshi-P just doesn't care one way or another about it.

[TamiaBlack]

If you don't mind me asking, which game was this?

Recently GW2, As soon as parsers went allowed officially people startet to get Toxic. More toxic then it was before Got kicked for example with just 10%-15% DPS below Meta, and the bosses are even doable with 25%-35% below Meta.

Don't remember if it was oficially supported, but felt so, WoW, Raidgroups and people in dungeons got very toxic really fast. Classic was way more relaxed.

In Statics, Parsers are no issue, because you shgould find a static that meets your gamestyle. I would never join a Harcore Raid group. I'm just not good enough for it. But in the Midcore where I'm in we get our kills too. It just needs a bit longer. The problems start if people start flaming in Random Content.

[akaneakki]

Recently GW2, As soon as parsers went allowed officially people startet to get Toxic. More toxic then it was before Got kicked for example with just 10%-15% DPS below Meta, and the bosses are even doable with 25%-35% below Meta.

I need proof on that as a gw2 AND BnS player. Most people who can't even do the raids in these game doesn't only screw up dps or dodgin the mechanics but also are very bad at performing the mechanics itself.
There are people who get kicked mainly for those reasons. And those games are heavy on mechanics, most of them 1 shot.

[Nezia]

This entire "anti-parser" crusade just makes no sense to me.

See, let's not pretend that players using 3rd party parsers is a very rare thing. Almost every single group(even in dungeons) has at least one person running a parser. So all that not having a built-in parser creates is a disadvantageous enviroment for ps4 players and PC players who can not run parsers since they can be kinda buggy at times(there is a friend of mine who can not get ACT to work no matter what).

Also, a couple of weeks ago I was on a O2s pug group and we had two 2~3% wipes in a roll for not meeting the enrage timer. I myself was running ACT and I could see that, although the group's damage was nothing too impressive there was a monk struggling to get past the 1.8k dps marker even without dying once. The group leader also was running a parser and stated that the monk was not doing his job and kicked him, then we pugged another dps and the boss was dead on the next try.

What I mean here is: without a parser we would have no way of knowing where the group's flaw was. And with no hints of how to correct it the group would just disband and 7 players would have to waste time looking for another group when they already were in an almost perfectly fine group.

I have said this, other people have said this, but let me put this here again: In wow parsers have been a thing for a very long time, and usually as long as one is not doing like 50% less than everyone else and the dps meters are being met no one actually talks shit about how the group dps is doing. Ofc it's a different thing if you are looking for a more serious group to clear mythic content, but for lfr/normal/late patch heroics? Never seen anyone say a thing unless in the cases I described above.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

So all that not having a built-in parser creates is a disadvantageous enviroment for ps4 players and PC players who can not run parsers since they can be kinda buggy at times(there is a friend of mine who can not get ACT to work no matter what).

Once again, I contend that in all these 4 years, I've never been at a disadvantage for not having a parser, or the ability to use one as a PS4 player. Have there been times I could do better? Definitely. But I've always been far from underperforming, simply because I made the effort to be good.

While this sounds like a brag, don't take it as such: someone recently referred to me as "legendary", which I found a bit odd. Then I remembered that they didn't see all the trial and error I put in, or the hours spent on striking dummies, practicing, refining, literally using the information given to me right before my eyes to figure out how to do it better and better all this time.

Sure, this is where one might say "But a parser can. . ." Yes, it can. But where I can't use it, I simply bricked my way up. It's not impossible. And while it's not easy, anyone who makes the effort can do it. Remaining neutral on the matter, the game can be played at a high level without one, and for that reason they aren't needed. Helpful, no disputing that, but not necessary to do well. If it were, PS4 players would already have a means to utilize one, or an official one would've been implemented by now. But I can't say it enough; I am NOT disadvantaged for being unable to parse just because I'm on PS4. Let's please stop using that as a talking point.

[Nezia]

Sure, this is where one might say "But a parser can. . ." Yes, it can. But where I can't use it, I simply bricked my way up. It's not impossible. And while it's not easy, anyone who makes the effort can do it.

And that's what a disadvantage is. Can a bare handed person defeat someone with a gun? Definitely! You only need to spend 15+ years studying martial arts in order to defeat someone who picked up a gun 15 minutes ago.

Of course this is a completely hyperbolic example, but the fact remains the same, I have acess to a tool that you don't, this simple fact puts me in an advantage. Can you work around it? Sure you can, but you still worked around a disadvantage.