Built-in Parsers

[Baingoleth]

You missed my point entirely.
My point is not only is it wrong to claim that it's true in all cases, but that those who did do the opposite of what Kairi said, had highly positive effects outof it.

Basicly just what I wrote at the very end (and you then conveniently skipped). Sometimes it is a good idea to punish the many, for the actions of a few



If you werent reffering to it, or doing it by proxy, you'd have made sure the interpertation wasnt there instead of deliberately allowing it through vague wording

I read your whole post. I quoted only the relevant bits to express my sentiment. Let's not compare parsers to guns kplsthx. Bringing up gun control is the sort of thing that derails otherwise productive threads.

[Lazaruz]

I read your whole post. I quoted only the relevant bits to express my sentiment. Let's not compare parsers to guns kplsthx. Bringing up gun control is the sort of thing that derails otherwise productive threads.

Again, I'm not doing a direct comparison between the 2.
I'm comparing the need to punish everyone using them because a few rotten apples.

And lets be real, this thread stopped being productive long before it even existed, since this topic has already been discussed to death, but neither side wants to give a inch

[Baingoleth]

And lets be real, this thread stopped being productive long before it even existed, since this topic has already been discussed to death, but neither side wants to give a inch

I seriously doubt this topic will go away as long as tools like ACT exist and tools like ACT are going to keep on existing. This is why my stance is to ask for SE to stop the transmission of other player's numbers to all party members.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

And lets be real, this thread stopped being productive long before it even existed, since this topic has already been discussed to death, but neither side wants to give a inch

Because like the ever beloved healer DPS, the opposing side lacks a stable argument. You claim parses would make it too easy to blur the lines between "playstyle" and "harassment" yet that doesn't add up.

"What's going on <insert player name>? Your DPS (SAM) is really low."
"Wtf <insert player name>? Fix your shit or I'm kicking you."

Those are two widely different tone. I can and should be reported for the latter, but the former isn't harassment in any way. If said player refuses to improve or admits they don't know their rotation well. I'm not obligated to carry them through content. If you think PF groups don't already kick for poor parses, you haven't pugged Savage. The only difference is they just don't tell you why or they reform the party and invite those they wanted back.

The parse argument basically boils down to "you'll hurt someone's feelings."

[Kacho_Nacho]

Because like the ever beloved healer DPS, the opposing side lacks a stable argument. You claim parses would make it too easy to blur the lines between "playstyle" and "harassment" yet that doesn't add up. "What's going on <insert player name>? Your DPS (SAM) is really low."
"Wtf <insert player name>? Fix your shit or I'm kicking you."

Those are two widely different tone. I can and should be reported for the latter, but the former isn't harassment in any way. If said player refuses to improve or admits they don't know their rotation well. I'm not obligated to carry them through content. If you think PF groups don't already kick for poor parses, you haven't pugged Savage. The only difference is they just don't tell you why or they reform the party and invite those they wanted back.

The parse argument basically boils down to "you'll hurt someone's feelings."

Not true. Can't you see why parsers would turn a large number of people off? I can't speak for everyone; but, a lot of us FFXIV players came over from WoW, a game which embraces the use of parsers.

It is common to have people post their DPS numbers into party/raid chat after every pull. It is not uncommon to be called a scrub or worse because you can't match the dps of someone twenty ilevels above you.

So, it's not parsers will hurt someone's feelings. It's that they will irrevocably change the game's community and atmosphere for the worse.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Not true. Can't you see why parsers would turn a large number of people off? I can't speak for everyone; but, a lot of us FFXIV players came over from WoW, a game which embraces the use of parsers.

It is common to have people post their DPS numbers into party/raid chat after every pull. It is not uncommon to be called a scrub or worse because you can't match the dps of someone twenty ilevels above you.

So, it's not parsers will hurt someone's feelings. It's that they will irrevocably change the game's community and atmosphere for the worse.

FFXIV's community is really no different except people will just omit the numbers. You also have to keep in mind WoW's numbers dwarf FFXIV by a significant amount. You'll here more complaints just based on sheer volume. Per your example though, pointing out said ilvl difference makes the accuser look dumb unless you're underperforming relatively to your ilvl.

Regardless, I would prefer some actual accountability than the passive aggressiveness and constant vote abandons we see now. Once again, people like those you described will kick or disband without a public parse. They simply won't tell you why. Will some abuse parses and/or be hostile? Yes, so report them. In the long run though, allowing parses helps improve players, especially when you can direct compare rotations, buffs and get a much better understanding why your DPS may be low. Right now, it's a guessing game unless you silently run these programs, which a good number of raiders do.

[Oscura]

Regardless, I would prefer some actual accountability than the passive aggressiveness and constant vote abandons we see now.

This is actually a really solid sentence by itself. I didn't even fully realize how often both of these things happen until you worded it that way.

[Dualgunner]

Not true. Can't you see why parsers would turn a large number of people off? I can't speak for everyone; but, a lot of us FFXIV players came over from WoW, a game which embraces the use of parsers.

It is common to have people post their DPS numbers into party/raid chat after every pull. It is not uncommon to be called a scrub or worse because you can't match the dps of someone twenty ilevels above you.

So, it's not parsers will hurt someone's feelings. It's that they will irrevocably change the game's community and atmosphere for the worse.

I think I'm missing something from your post.

WoW is a game that embraces the use of parsers. So wouldn't a lot of players coming from WoW be okay with use of parsers? Wouldn't they have naturally brought such a community vibe with them?

If you're claiming they came here to get away from the parsing nature of WoW...got any evidence for that? I only have anecdotes myself but a lot of my friends from WoW hate this game's policy on parsing, and left WoW for XIV because they hated the way gear was treated (something about an accessory that has an rng loot drop chance, but can account for 10+% of your dps, I'm not too clear on the details having never played WoW myself).

[NintenPyjak64]

If you're claiming they came here to get away from the parsing nature of WoW...got any evidence for that? I only have anecdotes myself but a lot of my friends from WoW hate this game's policy on parsing, and left WoW for XIV because they hated the way gear was treated (something about an accessory that has an rng loot drop chance, but can account for 10+% of your dps, I'm not too clear on the details having never played WoW myself).

WoW has 2 extra accessory slots called Trinkets. What they're complaining about is that some trinkets became so powerful for a specific class that they literally change your rotation to revolve around said trinket

At the end of Warlords of Draenor, I've heard about a caster trinket that made Arcane Mage just sit around and do next to nothing until it procs, and when it does, they went balls deep and still manage to top DPS (I played Hunter during that time, even then I was changing around trinkets on a per fight basis)

[Taika]

WoW has 2 extra accessory slots called Trinkets. What they're complaining about is that some trinkets became so powerful for a specific class that they literally change your rotation to revolve around said trinket

How does that have anything to do with parsers though? Seems like a question of really unbalanced gear design.

I think the point was without parsers the players wouldn't have been aware they could be lazy and still perform well the rankings so wouldn't have changed their play style.

Sure, but in this case I'd read it as the parser helping to reveal a severe lack in gear balance.