Built-in Parsers

[Baingoleth]

I mean, there's people who use tools to kill people, but are they banned by the government? No. The perpetrators get punished, and those who use the tool as intended are still free to do so.

Many other countries DID effectively ban guns, because some people cannot be trusted to own one. And the murder rate dropped like a rock as a result.

People who bring very divisive political arguments in an already heated debate about something else entirely should be automatically disqualified.

[Lazaruz]

People who bring very divisive political arguments in an already heated debate about something else entirely should be automatically disqualified.

You missed my point entirely.
My point is not only is it wrong to claim that it's true in all cases, but that those who did do the opposite of what Kairi said, had highly positive effects outof it.

Basicly just what I wrote at the very end (and you then conveniently skipped). Sometimes it is a good idea to punish the many, for the actions of a few

Uhm I wasn't referring to guns, but okay.

If you werent reffering to it, or doing it by proxy, you'd have made sure the interpertation wasnt there instead of deliberately allowing it through vague wording

[Baingoleth]

You missed my point entirely.
My point is not only is it wrong to claim that it's true in all cases, but that those who did do the opposite of what Kairi said, had highly positive effects outof it.

Basicly just what I wrote at the very end (and you then conveniently skipped). Sometimes it is a good idea to punish the many, for the actions of a few



If you werent reffering to it, or doing it by proxy, you'd have made sure the interpertation wasnt there instead of deliberately allowing it through vague wording

I read your whole post. I quoted only the relevant bits to express my sentiment. Let's not compare parsers to guns kplsthx. Bringing up gun control is the sort of thing that derails otherwise productive threads.

[LadyKairi]

Snip

Uhm I wasn't referring to guns, but okay.

[LadyKairi]

If you werent reffering to it, or doing it by proxy, you'd have made sure the interpertation wasnt there instead of deliberately allowing it through vague wording

Deliberately my butt. I was talking bout simple everyday tools like hammers, shovels or kitchen cutlery that everyone everywhere use and don't have regulations. Things that aren't super controversial. When I think tools, my mind doesn't automatically go to guns. The word 'tool' can be many many things.

[BigRed5392]

Deliberately my butt. I was talking bout simple everyday tools like hammers, shovels or kitchen cutlery that everyone everywhere use and don't have regulations. Things that aren't super controversial. When I think tools, my mind doesn't automatically go to guns. The word 'tool' can be many many things.

needed tools vs unneeded tools.

no one needs a parser to get better. People choose to use it. Whst do you think old school mmo people did before third party tools became a thing?

I'd like to ask a hypothetical question to the anti-parser people

You're doing O3S, you have a NIN, MNK, RDM and MCH for DPS, and you fail a DPS check 3 times in a row (ignoring tank and healer DPS, let's say it's the White Flame). Somebody you're playing with is running ACT and notices the RDM has considerably lower DPS and higher HPS then usual, and are the only person who has 1 or 2 deaths per attempt. Checking the abilities used shows the RDM is frequently casting Vercure, Jolt 2 (while procs are available) And unenchanted melee attacks.

You and other party members offer advice but it falls on deaf ears. Another failed DPS check and people are starting to get angry

You are the party leader of this team, what would you do? What do you think is fair? Does the RDM's enjoyment of how they play justify the growing frustration of the other party members?

EDIT: The party is a late phase learning party or a weekly kill party. NOT a fresh learning party

my question would be what is the healer doing if a rdm is having to self cure (if that is what your going by) why is the rdm dying? You leave a lot of details out. Remember content is a GROUP thing. Everyone in the GROUP is responsable if things go south.
You left out how advice was given, was it rude and unsolicited? or was it offered to the rdm as a choice?

if you single out 1 person because of a tool (that has a margin of error) of 8 and claiming fault, can cause problems for that 1 person who will get embarrassed and perform worst.

The rdm wouldn't need to heal if the healers were healing. Rdm wouldn't die if the healers were healing.

Why not after 3 wipes you vote abandon and talk to the rdm 1 on 1, see what the issues were. saying "your doing it wrong" is the worst way to tell a person to improve, ask to give them advice/tips. Offer some links to videos if that is how they learn.

no parser needed, just be a good person.

If that isn't good, party up with people you know only.

Like i said how you think mmo players go by before third party tools existed?

[NintenPyjak64]

my question would be what is the healer doing if a rdm is having to self cure (if that is what your going by) why is the rdm dying?

Ticks of Briar damage, having the AoE Spellblade Holy and getting clipped by a tank, not breaking vines fast enough, Not running out of the elemental spellblades fast enough. There's a plethora of things can can kill or severely damage you (Especially SB:Blizzard if the healers are even a little late to cure). They could panic and try to cure themselves without waiting for a healer to throw a cure, like how a DPS would use Second Wind but as a GCD ability

You left out how advice was given, was it rude and unsolicited? or was it offered to the rdm as a choice?

Ofc unsolicited, but let's say it's advice about the mechanics of the fight to address why they're dying or taking unnecessary damage. Ofc the entire party is seeing they're doing the mechanics poorly, and just want to advance to the stage the party was created for, giving advice to the person wouldn't make them embarrassed as they're likely ALREADY embarrassed because people noticed they made these mistakes

saying "your doing it wrong" is the worst way to tell a person to improve, ask to give them advice/tips. Offer some links to videos if that is how they learn.

With this I go back to my own post on the matter:

You and other party members offer advice but it falls on deaf ears

How can you know the other person learns from videos if the advice in the first place is falling on deaf ears?

no parser needed, just be a good person.

Since the start of the game I've always sugarcoated advice I've given. I've never given advice in a rude way, yet no matter what, it's ALWAYS interpreted as rude. I've gotten to the point where I just don't offer advice anymore, to the point where I don't care

If that isn't good, party up with people you know only.

I already try to do this to prevent running into players as such (see above response as to why), but there've been times where my static has needed to pug, only to be held back severely because of an outleir. It could be greedy DPS healers (NOT SAYING ALL HEALERS WHO DPS ARE GREEDY, I MEAN WHEN THEY CAST A DPS SPELL WHEN THEY SHOULD BE CASTING A CURE), it could be poor DPS making us fail checks, it could be tanks who can't hold hate on adds, I've seen it all

Like i said how you think mmo players go by before third party tools existed?

Looking at FFXI, Vanilla WoW and Runescape (the only old school MMOs I have knowledge of), simplified damage rotations where a parser ofc wouldn't be needed. Creating max damage now a days is without a doubt way more complicated then it was back then, combat is much MUCH faster paced. Ofc third party tools weren't needed back then, but as rotations became more indepth, tools needed to be created to benefit. Sadly the "toxic" players took the tool and abused it, think hurting somebody with a hammer when it was made for pounding nails into wood.

I'll just say this for the record: I hate kicking people. It always makes me feel like shit after, but the biggest "redemption" I feel from it is that I'm benefiting the 6 other people. I'll care more about the team as a whole then a person individually. My static is made almost entirely of friends, people I know who won't get angry when I tell them they suck (joking or not). But I'll actively help them knowing that they could use the advice and will be receptive of it. I even go the extra mile and suffer with them at training dummies or dungeons, and they'll do the same for me if I'm learning a new class

[TitaniaYaerem]

I feel like the idea of a personal parse wouldn't be a bad idea. Not tracking everyone else's performance but your own at least to maybe see about where you stand. I know that when I first started the game I was clueless if I was doing good or bad(this was before I knew this game even had parsers) so I was a bit lost and just kinda winged it. Due to being able to parse I was able to come a long way from when I had first started raiding in Gordias.

[NintenPyjak64]

I'd like to ask a hypothetical question to the anti-parser people

You're doing O3S, you have a NIN, MNK, RDM and MCH for DPS, and you fail a DPS check 3 times in a row (ignoring tank and healer DPS, let's say it's the White Flame). Somebody you're playing with is running ACT and notices the RDM has considerably lower DPS and higher HPS then usual, and are the only person who has 1 or 2 deaths per attempt. Checking the abilities used shows the RDM is frequently casting Vercure, Jolt 2 (while procs are available) And unenchanted melee attacks.

You and other party members offer advice but it falls on deaf ears. Another failed DPS check and people are starting to get angry

You are the party leader of this team, what would you do? What do you think is fair? Does the RDM's enjoyment of how they play justify the growing frustration of the other party members?

EDIT: The party is a late phase learning party or a weekly kill party. NOT a fresh learning party

[Kacho_Nacho]

I'd like to ask a hypothetical question to the anti-parser people

You're doing O3S, you have a NIN, MNK, RDM and MCH for DPS, and you fail a DPS check 3 times in a row (ignoring tank and healer DPS, let's say it's the White Flame). Somebody you're playing with is running ACT and notices the RDM has considerably lower DPS and higher HPS then usual, and are the only person who has 1 or 2 deaths per attempt. Checking the abilities used shows the RDM is frequently casting Vercure, Jolt 2 (while procs are available) And unenchanted melee attacks.

You and other party members offer advice but it falls on deaf ears. Another failed DPS check and people are starting to get angry

You are the party leader of this team, what would you do? What do you think is fair? Does the RDM's enjoyment of how they play justify the growing frustration of the other party members?

EDIT: The party is a late phase learning party or a weekly kill party. NOT a fresh learning party

Nice example! I'd say it was time to get rid of the RDM and initiate the kick. It is fair to do so because the RDM is obviously ignoring the advice of party members and I. The RDM's enjoyment of how they play is impeding the party as a whole.

Even though I lean toward no parsers, your hypothetical question shows one of your party using a parser correctly.