Built-in Parsers

[Javey]

Even if it was a personal parser, groups wanting to run high end content would ask for it and not sharing means no spot for you. An example would be deep dungeon runs that ask for something like a 90/90 min to join.

Also, since ACT is an unsupported third party program, people will stil use it. FFlogs compares your performance to others and that's what players are interested in as well.

[Zarabeth]

*snip*

The problem is that this issue is a dead issue and bringing it up over and over isn't helping. SE is not going to add it. I'm sorry if you can't understand why they took this stance but there it is. Being angry at everyone who doesn't agree that a parser is needed just proves the point of why SE doesn't want it in their game. I'm sorry you feel disrespected but it doesn't change my opinion that while a personal parser could be somewhat useful, one that gives other people's info is definitely not good for anything but starting problems.

[Kacho_Nacho]

Parser is just an advanced calculator and there is no going around the fact that as an advanced calculator, one needs to have basic level of awareness as to how it works. A poorly used tool is the users fault, not the tools. Hence, the tool cannot be blamed for that.

I agree with you!

But, until the day comes when players stop looking for that magical one number which encapsulates a player's performance, parsers will remain a divisive topic amongst the FFXIV community.

Here's the thing. Not everyone is concerned with being as efficient as possible. A lot of players play FFXIV for fun.

Meanwhile, you have another group who desire to be the best they can be. They want to get through the content as fast as possible in order to play the game at its highest difficulty.

I like to call this the Casuals versus the Hardcore debate. Now, parsers are fine for players who are pushing difficult content. Players need to be in their top form in order to overcome the challenges placed in front of them by the developers.

However, what happens is when the hardcore players encounter casual players going through dungeons to complete quests, parsers become this weapon to use against the casuals and it ruins the casual's enjoyment of the game.

Boiled down, FFXIV was not designed to be a competitive game. It's a story driven MMORPG. Parsers don't comfortably fit the audience.

[Hruodig]

I agree with you!

But, until the day comes when players stop looking for that magical one number which encapsulates a player's performance, parsers will remain a divisive topic amongst the FFXIV community.

Here's the thing. Not everyone is concerned with being as efficient as possible. A lot of players play FFXIV for fun.

Meanwhile, you have another group who desire to be the best they can be. They want to get through the content as fast as possible in order to play the game at its highest difficulty.

I like to call this the Casuals versus the Hardcore debate. Now, parsers are fine for players who are pushing difficult content. Players need to be in their top form in order to overcome the challenges placed in front of them by the developers.

However, what happens is when the hardcore players encounter casual players going through dungeons to complete quests, parsers become this weapon to use against the casuals and it ruins the casual's enjoyment of the game.

Boiled down, FFXIV was not designed to be a competitive game. It's a story driven MMORPG. Parsers don't comfortably fit the audience.

It doesn't really matter what it was designed to be, me and lots of my friends play it as a competitive game because we like to be good and push each other to be better. For people like us, being as efficient as possible *is* fun. I'm so sick of seeing "lots of people don't care about their dps, they play for *fun*", as if people who do care about their performance don't have fun.

[Niwashi]

It doesn't really matter what it was designed to be, me and lots of my friends play it as a competitive game because we like to be good and push each other to be better. For people like us, being as efficient as possible *is* fun. I'm so sick of seeing "lots of people don't care about their dps, they play for *fun*", as if people who do care about their performance don't have fun.

It's not that people think *you* don't have fun that way. It's simply that a lot of people are sick and tired of others telling them that they *have* to play that way, whether they find it fun or not. Highly competitive top tier stuff is a niche. Some people like it and some people don't. With a personal parser, you and your friends could get all the fun out of it you want, but would simply have a harder time telling casuals you wind up in a leveling dungeon with that *THEY* have to meet standards that the game doesn't set, but only you yourself do.

You can go ahead and have fun that way. Just don't insist that other people do. If it's just about your own fun, then seeing your own stats should be all that you need. Seeing other people's stats is for taking over their game from them and insisting they play it your way.

[Dzian]

They need to implement an in-game personal parser that gives all the details on your own performance and nothing about anybody else's.

What would that tell you?

A massive amount of your personal dps at any given time is not down to you but down to the rest of your group.. in order to make any sense of your dps you need to understand where it came from and why it is what it is.

A parser that tells you nothing about the rest of the group is useless.

If you take trick attack for example. That one buff can have maybe a 2% increase on your dps.

Just having a bard in your party is an almost permanent 2% increase to crit rate. And that's before counting foe or battle voice.

The point is all those little things the rest of your group does can add up to be a very significant portion of your personal dps. And because of that a personal parser that removes any information about the rest of the party would be totally useless.

You could do a fight twice. First time you might get 5k fps.

Second time you might get 5.5k dps. That might suggest you played better. But the reality is you could have played worse just the 7 people you were grouped with the second time were better players in a better composition. That extra dps then is down to them and not down to you playing better..

So a personal parse wouldn't tell you anything useful at all. Knowing you did more or less dps than you did last time is absolutely useless if you can't account for why you did more. And to do that you need information about the rest of the party.

[Taika]

No support. We don't need more reasons for people to start kicking people out of groups just because a number was lacking in THEIR own opinion.

Sure, it's much better to kick people because someone thinks their numbers might be lacking, right? Parsers bring transparency: everyone can objectively see who's pulling their weight and who's not. If you get kicked for low numbers, you know exactly what your numbers were and how they compared to the rest of the group. Sure, people can set their own expectations higher than "enough to clear", but that's their right, isn't it? Although personally I don't see that scenario as very likely, as in random party finder groups people seem to settle for "good enough" (and often lower than that, if the group is able to clear). Furthermore, with parsers no one can claim you're doing worse than others or that you're not doing good enough in situations where that isn't true. You can just answer with "no, look, I'm doing just as good as everyone else".

Can you give an example of a practical situation you think might happen with official parsers that would be truly unfair and isn't already happening in a less transparent form with unofficial parsers?

I personally don't think a person getting kicked because of actually constantly performing on a significantly lower level than everyone else in the party in content where performance matter (Savages, Extremes, Ultimate) is in any way unfair. That person should not be in that content in the first place before they can pull their own weight in the party, and they don't have any right to force others to work harder just to carry them through.

Edit: About the suggestion in OP, I think it would be a much simpler solution to just make it a party feature that the party leader can turn on for any content done in a premade party. Then people who wish to use them could join parties where they are available, and people who don't wish to use them won't have to. The content done with premades is already mostly the content where a parser is needed, so it would make sense that way as well.

[Hruodig]

It's not that people think *you* don't have fun that way. It's simply that a lot of people are sick and tired of others telling them that they *have* to play that way, whether they find it fun or not. Highly competitive top tier stuff is a niche. Some people like it and some people don't. With a personal parser, you and your friends could get all the fun out of it you want, but would simply have a harder time telling casuals you wind up in a leveling dungeon with that *THEY* have to meet standards that the game doesn't set, but only you yourself do.

You can go ahead and have fun that way. Just don't insist that other people do. If it's just about your own fun, then seeing your own stats should be all that you need. Seeing other people's stats is for taking over their game from them and insisting they play it your way.

I've literally never told anyone in a dungeon what their dps is, and neither have any of my friends. What's the point? Usually they don't listen anyway, when all you're doing is trying to get them to use aoe on dungeon packs, or use literally anything other than doton on a single target boss. If people wanted to improve, they'd already have been doing it by then.

[Saziel]

snip

Or people can just up their tolerance. I've never said anything negative to/booted anyone even if they consistently mess up. If I have to/am able, I just pick up the slack myself.

[BillyKaplan]

A parser that tells you nothing about the rest of the group is useless.

Knowing I had a BRD or an AST in my party is useless if it's a BRD that doesn't keep up songs or an AST that doesn't use cards. And even if they were performing adequately, what matters is that the boss had a debuff on it and that I had a buff on me, two entities whose data is relevant to the parsing. The problem with that is that it will arguably still give you too much information about how other people are performing (ok BRDs should rightly keep their songs up and that's easy to see if it drops even without a parser, but still) and that will net us right back where we started with people at each other's throats.