Please Buff Tenacity So Tanks Actually Want To Use Tank Stance

[shao32]

snip.

we already forced to be in dps stance to play optimal, whats the diference? i just suggesting to remove only damage penalty to make tank stances usefull, that dont change our rotations, and we will dont need a ninja to play at our maximun performance, so its a quality of life dont depend so much from others to play our job properly like the other 12 jobs in the game do.

so im curious why some "specially warriors" dont like this idea but some agreed tank stances are bad, some say they like have the "option", yeah that non-exist thing for every decent tank, even one say he dont want the damage pentalty being removed bcs everyone will match he DPS, so yeah its so terrible every tank how dont have they own ninja and perfect-proper healers can be able to play they jobs properly like any good tank without fear right?.

when the change i offer up there making special focus on some minor WAR changes, just offer more options on the table when MT with defiance and deliverance, so every warrior will have real options when using deliverance and defiance, but i just see they want to just stuck in deliverance and fell cleave to everyone who want to change that.

[Hruodig]

we already forced to be in dps stance to play optimal, whats the diference? i just suggesting to remove only damage penalty to make tank stances usefull, that dont change our rotations, and we will dont need a ninja to play at our maximun performance, so its a quality of life dont depend so much from others to play our job properly like the other 12 jobs in the game do.

so im curious why some "specially warriors" dont like this idea but some agreed tank stances are bad, some say they like have the "option", yeah that non-exist thing for every decent tank, even one say he dont want the damage pentalty being removed bcs everyone will match he DPS, so yeah its so terrible every tank how dont have they own ninja and perfect-proper healers can be able to play they jobs properly like any good tank without fear right?.

when the change i offer up there making special focus on some minor WAR changes, just offer more options on the table when MT with defiance and deliverance, so every warrior will have real options when using deliverance and defiance, but i just see they want to just stuck in deliverance and fell cleave to everyone who want to change that.

It wouldn't change anything though. As long as being in dps stance gives tanks a significant boost to tank dps over being in tank stance, tanks will continue to sit in dps stance over tank stance as much as possible. And I suggest hanging up this weird bias you have against warriors-my "main class" here might say warrior (and I do raid on warrior), but I play all three tanks pretty equally. I've been especially liking paladin recently.

[shao32]

snip

remove damage penalty Will make we dealt almost the same dps on tank stance, i just add extra change on war bcs they dps loss come from innerbeast too, so thats why i reduce the gauge cost, i dont see any problem there

[Crizhalid]

snip.

I don't think removing the damage penalty solves anything, nor do you *need* a NIN to clear the runs. Optimization is what it is, and those who can't should fall back on things like tank stance if needed, but should also be penalized for needing this assistance.

I don't understand why you're bringing up "specially warriors" to me, if it's as Hruodig says I hope you're not implying that my roleplaying class is my main raiding job.

[shao32]

snip.

so you say i have to dealt with it huh? i dont have a ninja in my raid team so i have to drop all my potential bcs of that its that so? want to keep our trash stances? lets keep our trash stances, if you dont want to improve it to make it better its ok, but is clearly you dont understand the point.

its not about dont need or need a NIN to clear runs or good healers, is being more independent of both, thats what make remove tank stance damage penalty, tank stances and actual tanks interacting with bosses dont match at all, i want better sinergy on that, and not being punish so bad bcs i dont have X job in my team, basicly how punishing was play NIN in HW when you dont have a WAR in you team.

tank stances loose all they purpose now for raiders, whats the point on keep it like that?

[Crizhalid]

so you say i have to dealt with it huh? i dont have a ninja in my raid team so i have to drop all my potential bcs of that its that so? want to keep our trash stances? lets keep our trash stances, if you dont want to improve it to make it better its ok, but is clearly you dont understand the point.

its not about dont need or need a NIN to clear runs or good healers, is being more independent of both, thats what make remove tank stance damage penalty, tank stances and actual tanks interacting with bosses dont match at all, i want better sinergy on that, and not being punish so bad bcs i dont have X job in my team, basicly how punishing was play NIN in HW when you dont have a WAR in you team.

tank stances loose all they purpose now for raiders, whats the point on keep it like that?

How tank stance interacts with bosses is dependent on how the fight is designed. Addressing that sounds like a good start.

[shao32]

How tank stance interacts with bosses is dependent on how the fight is designed. Addressing that sounds like a good start.

the problem with the actual desing is, if you impose tank stances with DPS penalty agresive tanks get angry, but the current status of tank stances is unacceptable bcs are not being used as how are desing, cost is so high and dont offer nothing that we can cover with our other skills thats the main problem, thats why my suggestion its neutral, keeping the actual cost of GDC/MP/recast but with no big dps cost as we are sufering rigth now will make tank stances usefull in every level of content and make it dance depending of the fight, the cost will be still there but no at a insane level as now.

i defend this bcs im against to every desing that make some skill useless, situational skills are a thing but tank stances are so much cost for little reward, the cost and reward should be equal at minimun.

[Hruodig]

so you say i have to dealt with it huh? i dont have a ninja in my raid team so i have to drop all my potential bcs of that its that so? want to keep our trash stances? lets keep our trash stances, if you dont want to improve it to make it better its ok, but is clearly you dont understand the point.

its not about dont need or need a NIN to clear runs or good healers, is being more independent of both, thats what make remove tank stance damage penalty, tank stances and actual tanks interacting with bosses dont match at all, i want better sinergy on that, and not being punish so bad bcs i dont have X job in my team, basicly how punishing was play NIN in HW when you dont have a WAR in you team.

tank stances loose all they purpose now for raiders, whats the point on keep it like that?

I mean...my group doesn't have a ninja (monk/drg) and I still manage to get good dps numbers. Now that shirk exists, not having a ninja isn't really a big deal. The only thing you're missing without a ninja is an equilibrium-only pull.

[Aana]

I mean...my group doesn't have a ninja (monk/drg) and I still manage to get good dps numbers. Now that shirk exists, not having a ninja isn't really a big deal. The only thing you're missing without a ninja is an equilibrium-only pull.

Yeah, mine doesn't have a ninja either (drg/sam). You adapt to your situation. I wont ever hit 99% without a ninja. But 80+ is still just fine, and we still win and get loot and have fun as a group.

A bard cant meet its max potential without a drg. Tanks cant meet max potential without a nin. Pld/Drk cant meet max potential without a War/Sam/Nin. Casters cant max potential without Brd/Mch. Shield healer cant meet its potential without a bomb healer. There are so many party buffs and boss debuffs that every job gets better with specific other jobs in the party. That's called synergy. Its not evil in the small doses we have in this game.