Please Buff Tenacity So Tanks Actually Want To Use Tank Stance

[Aana]

bcs is a bad desing? if you think like that then why all the warriors have the right to ask for a change on shake it off in the first place? or sole survivor on DRK? or any other situational skill in the game? tank stances have less use and utility that those skills, are working as a simple emity buff on pulls, for that they can just delete tank stances and make a 30 seconds emity buff with damage reduction every 60-90 seconds and all happy.

why we have to dealt with high cost tank stance on DRK how technically dont offer nothing to my gameplay as a tank and WAR having extremly unnecesary skill on defiance aka innerbeast and unchained wasting space? for rookies? are you kidding me?
are you come and say tanking on tank stance is more boring when its dont change nothing of what you do on DRK and PLD? much worse making WAR skills wasting space.
tank stances need to be there for main tanking or being remove but dont keep this middle ground, we want better sinergy on it, being a benefc not being a drag aka better sinergy with all our skills.

plus the actual status already make sociial isues when one tank choose stay on it or not we all already see this.

That post is really hard to understand. I don't even know if Im following you at this point.

All I got from that is:
* Its a bad design (tank stance). Care to elaborate?
* Somehow saying tank stances have less use and utility than skill (shake it off) that literally did not work outside of dungeons. Wut.
* Complain that Grit is highest cost tank stance that 'don't offer nothing'. War has 'unnecessary' skills like IB unchained. Not following. I use those things all the time.
* Tank stance is for rookies? That is ONE of multiple functions it serves. Yes. Having underrepresented, but necessary jobs like tanks DO need to be rookie friendly. Enjoy your hour long DPS cues if tanking is 'to hard'. Even 'good' tanks still use tank stance fairly often. Only people that NEVER use tank stance in raids are the speed running 1%. People act like avg joe tank never uses stance just because some elite speed runners don't for damage purposes.
* (I say) Tanking in tank stance is boring when it changes nothing. Clarification. I didn't say tanking in tank stance is boring. I said only having 1 stance to use is boring. Removing choices becomes more boring. For example: Forcing everyone to use tank stance regardless of if they want or even need to.
* It makes social issues. (Assuming you mean the 'dps' tanks that die all the time trying to be pro). Overblown. With the removal of str accessories, this is not nearly as big an issue as it used to be.

[shao32]

snip.

i make it easy then.

- tank stances on PLD and DRK dont offer nothing on gameplay level, you "sense of choice" is a ghost empty feeling there, are just a binary switch and there no exist stance dance anymore bcs we stay in dps stance 99,9% of the time, its a bad desing bcs the stances are not worthy of the price in none of the 3 tanks by miles, more on one that the others, in this game we dealt dps and not a small amout, and the price of tank stances are just to expensive, they will work a lot better being a net buff when you MT on emity and mitigation with they respective cost of switching and giving us a real stance dancing gameplay when we switch on bosses (remember this only on DRK and PLD, WAR come now).

- comunity make innerbeast useless, the skill is a dps loss in all sense, any good WAR know that, and technically you dont need it at all to survive, there is no scenario where you need innerbeast, i run dungeons with my WAR sometimes and i never use innerbeast, its just unnecesary, steelciclone works a lot better on packs and on bosses i have a huge arsenal to mitigate, and i dont see anyone want to improve defiance gameplay to have really a more deep rotation with war, i will put you a example: with no damage penalty and for example reduce innerbeast gauge cost to 30 (300 potency= 30 cost compared to 500 potency=50 from fell cleave) will encourage WARs to switch more to use inner beast without being a dps lose, in other words being usefull (meaby nerf the damage reduction to a 10% to compensate)and use Upheaval with head and not just a ofgc more and this will be more interesting that just sitting on deliverance spaming fellcleaves.

- last one tank stances and rookies, remove tank stance damage penalty (yes is my favourite change bcs dont make blue dps angry) dont means change nothing to a conten level, in fact it will make it more friendly, its just like now but dealing more dps on tank stance, this dont make anything more harder to anyone, less for raiders, its been prove hundreds of times tank stances just make you have a bit more of HP when you get a tank buster at the cost of a lot dps, its a necesary Qol change.

[Shinkyo]

Snip

Sorry to burst your bubble but you don’t remember ARR WAR.

2.0: stacks gave 2% healing received increase
2.1: statcks gave 2% crit rate
3.0: wrath gave 2% parry, abandon gave 2% crits

And all combo moves except Heavy Swing gave stacks. It took 2.5 combos to get to 5.

Unchained required 5 stacks until they reduced it to 2 in 4.0 and now 0 since 4.01.

Stanceless average potency was 206.6/gcd (SE>BB)
Defiance average potency without unchained and infuriate was 172.5/gcd (SE>BB + IB every 5 stacks)
That’s ~18% dps reduction. Now, add the increased crit, unchained uptime and extra IB from infuriate and you mostly get 10-15% net dps reduction.

Defiance WAR was a very close to stanceless WAR in ARR.

[Llus]

Sorry to burst your bubble but you don’t remember ARR WAR.

2.0: stacks gave 2% healing received increase
2.1: statcks gave 2% crit rate
3.0: wrath gave 2% parry, abandon gave 2% crits

And all combo moves except Heavy Swing gave stacks. It took 2.5 combos to get to 5.

Unchained required 5 stacks until they reduced it to 2 in 4.0 and now 0 since 4.01.

Stanceless average potency was 206.6/gcd (SE>BB)
Defiance average potency without unchained and infuriate was 172.5/gcd (SE>BB + IB every 5 stacks)
That’s ~18% dps reduction. Now, add the increased crit, unchained uptime and extra IB from infuriate and you mostly get 10-15% net dps reduction.

Defiance WAR was a very close to stanceless WAR in ARR.

Nope, i don't remember ARR war: https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/m...er&oldid=44422

Wrath did give a 2% crit up https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/m...or&oldid=39062
Then it did give a 2% parry up https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/m...or&oldid=98519

I probably forgot about the crit rate because I was NEVER in Defiance when running OT and was only in Defiance+Unchained for pulls and busters.

Maim didn't give wrath, only vengeance, storm's path and storm's eye - so it took 5 path/eye combos or 4+vengenace so the potency calculations for unstanced wars still stand

[Falgern]

Nope, i don't remember ARR war: https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/m...er&oldid=44422

Wrath did give a 2% crit up https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/m...or&oldid=39062
Then it did give a 2% parry up https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/m...or&oldid=98519

Maim didn't give wrath, only vengeance, storm's path and storm's eye - so it took 5 path/eye combos or 4+vengenace so the potency calculations for unstanced wars still stand

Unchained NEVER required wrath until the start of 4.0 and was removed very quickly

https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/m...ned&oldid=2910

Unchained

Nullifies the damage penalty inflicted by Defiance for 20s.
Can only be executed when Infuriated. All Wrath is lost when used.
Effect is canceled if Defiance ends.

I'm sure they didn't just make the infuriated part up

[Llus]

https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/m...ned&oldid=2910



I'm sure they didn't just make the infuriated part up

Yea I remembered that after I posted which is why I removed it, infuriate+unchained pull.

[whiskeybravo]

Yea, they eventually replaced the healing bonus with crit and changed the healing bonus to be active full time instead built up in steps (and then lost). Then gave the crit to deliverance when that came out.

I think the old tool tips are simply wrong. Maim, SE, SP, SS and BB all gave stacks. Heavy swing did not (only the subseqeunt combos).

See old Xeno vid (24:35 is where he starts talking about rotation and you can see stack accumulation/expenditure in vid): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkUuBQ7VPug

I don't specifically recall if Vengeance gave a stack in ARR or if that was introduced in HW with the addition of Raw Intuition. But Unchained for sure consumed stacks.

[Llus]

Yea, they eventually replaced the healing bonus with crit and changed the healing bonus to be active full time instead built up in steps (and then lost). Then gave the crit to deliverance when that came out.

I think the old tool tips are simply wrong. Maim, SE, SP, SS and BB all gave stacks. Heavy swing did not (only the subseqeunt combos). The dream was getting off 2 IB in a 9-gcd berserk window. (infuriate(5)>hs>berserk>IB>M(1)>SE(2)>HS>SS(3)>BB(4)>HS>M(5)>IB). I don't specifically recall if Vengeance gave a stack in ARR or if that was introduced in HW with the addition of Raw Intuition.

I really don't remember maim giving wrath, that's why I was double checking the wiki. It's been 3 years ... Shit, now i'm wondering if the wiki is wrong about maim..

[whiskeybravo]

I really don't remember maim giving wrath, that's why I was double checking the wiki. It's been 3 years ... Shit, now i'm wondering if the wiki is wrong about maim..

Edited post. See vid. I ain't even trying to remember the rotation for 3+ years ago lol (pretty sure I had it wrong).

I just remember being all about that 9-gcd berserk window. I guess it was something like infuriate>unchained>HS>berserk>8-gcds>IB

[Llus]

Yea, rewatching some shitter's old patch 2.5 video maim did give you wrath, so did berserk: https://youtu.be/YkUuBQ7VPug?t=5m5s omg i'm a failure as a war ;-;