Please Buff Tenacity So Tanks Actually Want To Use Tank Stance

[Llus]

Sorry to burst your bubble but you don’t remember ARR WAR.

2.0: stacks gave 2% healing received increase
2.1: statcks gave 2% crit rate
3.0: wrath gave 2% parry, abandon gave 2% crits

And all combo moves except Heavy Swing gave stacks. It took 2.5 combos to get to 5.

Unchained required 5 stacks until they reduced it to 2 in 4.0 and now 0 since 4.01.

Stanceless average potency was 206.6/gcd (SE>BB)
Defiance average potency without unchained and infuriate was 172.5/gcd (SE>BB + IB every 5 stacks)
That’s ~18% dps reduction. Now, add the increased crit, unchained uptime and extra IB from infuriate and you mostly get 10-15% net dps reduction.

Defiance WAR was a very close to stanceless WAR in ARR.

Nope, i don't remember ARR war: https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/m...er&oldid=44422

Wrath did give a 2% crit up https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/m...or&oldid=39062
Then it did give a 2% parry up https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/m...or&oldid=98519

I probably forgot about the crit rate because I was NEVER in Defiance when running OT and was only in Defiance+Unchained for pulls and busters.

Maim didn't give wrath, only vengeance, storm's path and storm's eye - so it took 5 path/eye combos or 4+vengenace so the potency calculations for unstanced wars still stand

[whiskeybravo]

Yea, they eventually replaced the healing bonus with crit and changed the healing bonus to be active full time instead built up in steps (and then lost). Then gave the crit to deliverance when that came out.

I think the old tool tips are simply wrong. Maim, SE, SP, SS and BB all gave stacks. Heavy swing did not (only the subseqeunt combos).

See old Xeno vid (24:35 is where he starts talking about rotation and you can see stack accumulation/expenditure in vid): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkUuBQ7VPug

I don't specifically recall if Vengeance gave a stack in ARR or if that was introduced in HW with the addition of Raw Intuition. But Unchained for sure consumed stacks.

[Falgern]

Nope, i don't remember ARR war: https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/m...er&oldid=44422

Wrath did give a 2% crit up https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/m...or&oldid=39062
Then it did give a 2% parry up https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/m...or&oldid=98519

Maim didn't give wrath, only vengeance, storm's path and storm's eye - so it took 5 path/eye combos or 4+vengenace so the potency calculations for unstanced wars still stand

Unchained NEVER required wrath until the start of 4.0 and was removed very quickly

https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/m...ned&oldid=2910

Unchained

Nullifies the damage penalty inflicted by Defiance for 20s.
Can only be executed when Infuriated. All Wrath is lost when used.
Effect is canceled if Defiance ends.

I'm sure they didn't just make the infuriated part up

[Llus]

https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/m...ned&oldid=2910



I'm sure they didn't just make the infuriated part up

Yea I remembered that after I posted which is why I removed it, infuriate+unchained pull.

[Llus]

Yea, they eventually replaced the healing bonus with crit and changed the healing bonus to be active full time instead built up in steps (and then lost). Then gave the crit to deliverance when that came out.

I think the old tool tips are simply wrong. Maim, SE, SP, SS and BB all gave stacks. Heavy swing did not (only the subseqeunt combos). The dream was getting off 2 IB in a 9-gcd berserk window. (infuriate(5)>hs>berserk>IB>M(1)>SE(2)>HS>SS(3)>BB(4)>HS>M(5)>IB). I don't specifically recall if Vengeance gave a stack in ARR or if that was introduced in HW with the addition of Raw Intuition.

I really don't remember maim giving wrath, that's why I was double checking the wiki. It's been 3 years ... Shit, now i'm wondering if the wiki is wrong about maim..

[whiskeybravo]

I really don't remember maim giving wrath, that's why I was double checking the wiki. It's been 3 years ... Shit, now i'm wondering if the wiki is wrong about maim..

Edited post. See vid. I ain't even trying to remember the rotation for 3+ years ago lol (pretty sure I had it wrong).

I just remember being all about that 9-gcd berserk window. I guess it was something like infuriate>unchained>HS>berserk>8-gcds>IB

[Llus]

Yea, rewatching some shitter's old patch 2.5 video maim did give you wrath, so did berserk: https://youtu.be/YkUuBQ7VPug?t=5m5s omg i'm a failure as a war ;-;

[whiskeybravo]

Alright then maybe vengeance did give a stack too. I have vague memories about 60-sec pre-pulls (infuriate.. wait til almost over then pop vengeance to extend "infuriated" and let infuriate cd come close to resetting). I never really did them so can't remember

[Shinkyo]

Alright then maybe vengeance did give a stack too. I have vague memories about 60-sec pre-pulls (infuriate.. wait til almost over then pop vengeance to extend "infuriated" and let infuriate cd come close to resetting). I never really did them so can't remember

Yup Vengeance gave a stack back in ARR.

[shao32]

Can we stop asking HOW to force more tank stance and instead ask WHY should we force more tank stance 1st? Before you make a thread explaining how to make tanks sit in defensive posture 100% of the time, 1st ask WHY we should be in tank stance all the time. Please explain why more tank stance is a goal in the 1st place.

I see lots of prescriptions here. What 'problem' are we trying to solve here exactly?

bcs is a bad desing? if you think like that then why all the warriors have the right to ask for a change on shake it off in the first place? or sole survivor on DRK? or any other situational skill in the game? tank stances have less use and utility that those skills, are working as a simple emity buff on pulls, for that they can just delete tank stances and make a 30 seconds emity buff with damage reduction every 60-90 seconds and all happy.

why we have to dealt with high cost tank stance on DRK how technically dont offer nothing to my gameplay as a tank and WAR having extremly unnecesary skill on defiance aka innerbeast and unchained wasting space? for rookies? are you kidding me?
are you come and say tanking on tank stance is more boring when its dont change nothing of what you do on DRK and PLD? much worse making WAR skills wasting space.
tank stances need to be there for main tanking or being remove but dont keep this middle ground, we want better sinergy on it, being a benefc not being a drag aka better sinergy with all our skills.

plus the actual status already make sociial isues when one tank choose stay on it or not we all already see this.