Please Buff Tenacity So Tanks Actually Want To Use Tank Stance

[shao32]

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remove damage penalty Will make we dealt almost the same dps on tank stance, i just add extra change on war bcs they dps loss come from innerbeast too, so thats why i reduce the gauge cost, i dont see any problem there

[Crizhalid]

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I don't think removing the damage penalty solves anything, nor do you *need* a NIN to clear the runs. Optimization is what it is, and those who can't should fall back on things like tank stance if needed, but should also be penalized for needing this assistance.

I don't understand why you're bringing up "specially warriors" to me, if it's as Hruodig says I hope you're not implying that my roleplaying class is my main raiding job.

[Dzian]

Tanking has never worked as intended in this game. Which is why the devs eventually gave up and started adding are to tank gear. And accepting there dps mentality.

The problem has always been encounter design and unless that changes tanks will always be the same.

There's 2 things here. 1 every encounter is highly predictable and incredibly scripted. You cmpretty much know the tank will eat a tank buster at 30 seconds. Another at 60 seconds. Another at 90 seconds and so on. Between these times the only thing hitting them is basically auto attacks. With damage being that predictable there's really no reason to be defensive.

The second thing is those tank busters also have to be survivable by every tank which limits the amount of damage they can do in the first place. And also means some cooldowns are kinda borked. Seminal for example nothing needs 40% mitigation ever because if it did war and dark would be screwed best they got is 30%

You also can't build around shields because there's no guarantee your party will have them.

If you want to make tank stance more viable you need to change the core of encounter design and randomize it a lot. Make the incoming damage a lot less predictable. And make it hit a lot harder. Create the possibility of 2 maybe even 3 tank buster back to back and suddenly cooldowns alone won't be enough. Because you won't have any available and you won't know what will hit you next.

In the current design though it's simply obsolete. Because everything is so scripted and predictable. That you can be shielded excogd and have a cooldown available for every single tank buster. There's rarely any need for a defensive stance outside of it's enmity boost.

Tanking has never worked as intended. Paladin is a good source of proof for that.. it was always meant to be the defensive fortress style tank but it never worked because balance meant that warrior had to be able to survive every hit a paladin could any defence on top of that was never needed so warriors were preferred for the extra offence as extra defence just wasn't needed.

In a way same with healers and why whm spent so much time on the back bench. Because sch and ast both had to be capable of healing enough to clear content and thus all the extra healing power a whm had just wanst necessary. Best to chose extra offence instead of even more healing power that you don't need.

[shao32]

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so you say i have to dealt with it huh? i dont have a ninja in my raid team so i have to drop all my potential bcs of that its that so? want to keep our trash stances? lets keep our trash stances, if you dont want to improve it to make it better its ok, but is clearly you dont understand the point.

its not about dont need or need a NIN to clear runs or good healers, is being more independent of both, thats what make remove tank stance damage penalty, tank stances and actual tanks interacting with bosses dont match at all, i want better sinergy on that, and not being punish so bad bcs i dont have X job in my team, basicly how punishing was play NIN in HW when you dont have a WAR in you team.

tank stances loose all they purpose now for raiders, whats the point on keep it like that?

[Crizhalid]

so you say i have to dealt with it huh? i dont have a ninja in my raid team so i have to drop all my potential bcs of that its that so? want to keep our trash stances? lets keep our trash stances, if you dont want to improve it to make it better its ok, but is clearly you dont understand the point.

its not about dont need or need a NIN to clear runs or good healers, is being more independent of both, thats what make remove tank stance damage penalty, tank stances and actual tanks interacting with bosses dont match at all, i want better sinergy on that, and not being punish so bad bcs i dont have X job in my team, basicly how punishing was play NIN in HW when you dont have a WAR in you team.

tank stances loose all they purpose now for raiders, whats the point on keep it like that?

How tank stance interacts with bosses is dependent on how the fight is designed. Addressing that sounds like a good start.

[shao32]

How tank stance interacts with bosses is dependent on how the fight is designed. Addressing that sounds like a good start.

the problem with the actual desing is, if you impose tank stances with DPS penalty agresive tanks get angry, but the current status of tank stances is unacceptable bcs are not being used as how are desing, cost is so high and dont offer nothing that we can cover with our other skills thats the main problem, thats why my suggestion its neutral, keeping the actual cost of GDC/MP/recast but with no big dps cost as we are sufering rigth now will make tank stances usefull in every level of content and make it dance depending of the fight, the cost will be still there but no at a insane level as now.

i defend this bcs im against to every desing that make some skill useless, situational skills are a thing but tank stances are so much cost for little reward, the cost and reward should be equal at minimun.

[Hruodig]

so you say i have to dealt with it huh? i dont have a ninja in my raid team so i have to drop all my potential bcs of that its that so? want to keep our trash stances? lets keep our trash stances, if you dont want to improve it to make it better its ok, but is clearly you dont understand the point.

its not about dont need or need a NIN to clear runs or good healers, is being more independent of both, thats what make remove tank stance damage penalty, tank stances and actual tanks interacting with bosses dont match at all, i want better sinergy on that, and not being punish so bad bcs i dont have X job in my team, basicly how punishing was play NIN in HW when you dont have a WAR in you team.

tank stances loose all they purpose now for raiders, whats the point on keep it like that?

I mean...my group doesn't have a ninja (monk/drg) and I still manage to get good dps numbers. Now that shirk exists, not having a ninja isn't really a big deal. The only thing you're missing without a ninja is an equilibrium-only pull.

[Aana]

I mean...my group doesn't have a ninja (monk/drg) and I still manage to get good dps numbers. Now that shirk exists, not having a ninja isn't really a big deal. The only thing you're missing without a ninja is an equilibrium-only pull.

Yeah, mine doesn't have a ninja either (drg/sam). You adapt to your situation. I wont ever hit 99% without a ninja. But 80+ is still just fine, and we still win and get loot and have fun as a group.

A bard cant meet its max potential without a drg. Tanks cant meet max potential without a nin. Pld/Drk cant meet max potential without a War/Sam/Nin. Casters cant max potential without Brd/Mch. Shield healer cant meet its potential without a bomb healer. There are so many party buffs and boss debuffs that every job gets better with specific other jobs in the party. That's called synergy. Its not evil in the small doses we have in this game.