Tanks Letting DPS Die

[KDSilver]

Happened to me several times there past days...
Used things like diversion, lucid dream (rdm), even when i leveled up my drg.

On these moment I just want to yell at them cause I did my job to reduce my aggro but yeah, dying sure is a good aggro reset.
I have no problem with tank optimizing their dps but god please. AGGRO FIRST...
If they all think we steal aggro from not using aggro reducer, we won't go in any productive way. It's a 120s CD. We won't stop dpsing... to let them dps while ours does more damages. This is ridiculous.

That's on those moment I regret square putting strengh back on accessories and removing penalty from stance dancing.
I know it's not a good thing for tank's feeling in general but at least it teached them.

[Wintersandman]

Again, your aggro, your responsibility.

You're not speaking chinese. I understand what you're saying but the responsibility of the dps is to dps while using enmity tools. If these are done properly than it is the tanks fault for not following their responsibility. The DPS is not at fault for using their tools and doing their job properly. That responsibility falls solely on the tank. Enmity generation isn't hard in this game.

[Hruodig]

Saw a similar question in the healers board and I want to ask here since it’s relevant to DPS: which scenario would pull the most total DPS as a team? A tank who mostly focuses on dealing damage while the team manage aggro and healing? Or a tank that focus on enmity and defense while the team pumps out DPS? Of course we can have a hybrid but I’m just seeking an extreme of each side (which IMO would be the ideal scenario) since most of us live in a PUG life.

The first scenario doesn't really make sense. Everyone is always focusing on damage-managing aggro as a dps and healer only requires pressing a button, which doesn't reduce dps, whereas the tank having to do more aggro combos than necessary does reduce dps. This is why it's muuuuuuuch more optimal for the dps and healers to help out with aggro, rather than having the tank needlessly turtle in tank stance, spamming aggro combos for no reason.

[Kabooa]

The first scenario doesn't really make sense. Everyone is always focusing on damage-managing aggro as a dps and healer only requires pressing a button, which doesn't reduce dps, whereas the tank having to do more aggro combos than necessary does reduce dps. This is why it's muuuuuuuch more optimal for the dps and healers to help out with aggro, rather than having the tank needlessly turtle in tank stance, spamming aggro combos for no reason.

There are several scenarios.

Dungeon packs: You're probably in tank stance anyways just to give the healer more breathing room, and all the AOE skills minus TE include threat modifiers anyways. No issue.
Dungeon bosses: You better at least do one combo in tank stance
Ninja: !@#% it, do whatever you want mang

[Hruodig]

There are several scenarios.

Dungeon packs: You're probably in tank stance anyways just to give the healer more breathing room, and all the AOE skills minus TE include threat modifiers anyways. No issue.
Dungeon bosses: You better at least do one combo in tank stance
Ninja: !@#% it, do whatever you want mang

Unfortunately the few times I've had to pug a dps for exr, I've mostly gotten ninjas who only single target doton and don't know what shadewalker is

[Kabooa]

Unfortunately the few times I've had to pug a dps for exr, I've mostly gotten ninjas who only single target doton and don't know what shadewalker is

My heart

[ElazulHP]

If the tank loses aggro drag the mob back directly onto the tank. Either they will take back the aggro or they will have to dodge AOE non-stop forcing them to take it anyways. Whatever you do DON'T run around with your head cut off if you steal aggro from the tank.

[EaMett]

[...] I understand what you're saying but the responsibility of the dps is to dps while using enmity tools. [...]

Correction : the responsibility of the dps is to dps while managing their enmity (aka: not grabbing aggro). Enmity tools are just one way they can do this. Other options include not dpsing, switching targets, handling a mechanic for another player etc.

[...] Not doing anything to focus on my secondary responsibility over my primary (damage) [...]

Why is one primary and the other secondary? They're equivalent and go hand in hand. Besides how do either of those supersede you staying alive? Emnity is 100% your responsibility. That's why you don't pull as a dps. That's why you don't HoT as a healer during big pulls (or do so conservatively) and don't overheal.

I think the sticking point for many people is that Aggro management is indeed a group effort. If one team member does poorly it impacts the other players. This, however, does not mean that your tank being shitty gives you a "get out of jail free" card for grabbing aggro. It's still your fault as frustrating as it may be.

[Capn_Goggles]

Enmity management is everyone's responsibility. Absolute purity of role doesn't exist when every job has tools that allow them to dip their toes into other responsibilities. Some caster DPS have access to raise, some tanks have access to healing, DPS have access to enmity management, healers and tanks have DPS toolkits, and so-on and so-forth. A DPS that does not properly manage their enmity is not using their full toolkit, and anybody that isn't using their full toolkit is not pulling their full weight. Mind you, there are cases where this is a bit unreasonable. Samurai and Monk have high personal DPS and a fairly mediocre enmity management tool in diversion; in this case the tank might have to work a little bit to maintain enmity.

I'm not the kind of person to let a DPS die because of this because I view it as a tad petty and honestly would rather deal with a marginally longer run time than a significantly longer run time, however I can understand the frustration of constantly having to deal with DPS who don't use their utility for whatever reason. Long story short, if a healer that doesn't DPS when able is considered crappy, and a tank that doesn't pop cooldowns to keep themselves alive and only spams enmity combo is considered crappy, then a DPS that doesn't manage their enmity and use their (rather impressive) utility is also crappy.

[gti443]

That responsibility falls solely on the tank. Enmity generation isn't hard in this game.

Let me put it another way -- there's no point where the responsibility of tanking falls to you. Rather, your responsibility is to watch Netflix and alternating your best /dance emotes.