Tanks Letting DPS Die

[Okamimaru]

SE needs to either add the reason "playstyle difference" or need to take a stand and say it's not a valid kick excuse

[Flaris]

I actually just posted a thread similar to this. It happens all the time to me, im BiS Sam and Diversion simply enough at this point, and im using it on CD. With how quickly enmity rises despite Diversion, I bet most tanks assume i'm not using it at all.

[Tsilyi]

They really should just attach the same drop to invigorate that they do to lucid dreaming, a very easy fix and applies itself to every melee in one fell swoop

[Cynfael]

We'd have fewer issues if more tanks recognized the need to use additional enmity combos when the DPS are strong. When I see a tank raging or being petty and wasting everyone's time by deliberately allowing DPS to take aggro, it's usually not that the DPS are doing anything wrong, but that the tank is making simple mistakes like underestimating how much enmity they need to build to keep the mobs under control.

When someone is being rude and disrupting the flow by deliberately pulling ahead, that's a different matter. If I were the tank, I'd either pull more to accommodate the group or I'd leave; I wouldn't drag it out by throwing a tantrum.

[Xerek]

"Muh DPS!"

Sadly, this statement is what FF XIV is built around, regardless of role. Tanks running in DPS stance, refusing to swap back to tank stance when the aggro table gets iffy. Claiming the DPS should use aggro deflection, then if the DPS do, they claim the DPS should hold back. Then the 101 flammable threads about healers that don't DPS. And, of course, you get DPS who, even if they see their tank is struggling, refuse to give up even a single point of DPS to help. The job of the tank is to DPS hard, oh, and maybe manage aggro. The job of a healer is to DPS hard, oh, and heal a little. The job of the DPS is to DPS balls to the wall no matter what. That's the current mindset, and parsers are a large reason why. It's not about efficiency, party symmetry, or heaven forbid having fun. It's about having that high number on the parser.

Now, don't get me wrong, the game itself definately carries some blame. Why are raiders so focused on DPS? Because raids have enrage timers and your raid group needs to wring every last drop of DPS out like a moist dishrag in the desert or you'll likely wipe. And the game allows tanks and healers to do too much damage. If it were a case where tanks and healers could contribute a little DPS here and there, people wouldn't focus on it as much. But currently in XIV tanks and healers can put out so much damage that there is a notable drop-off when they don't. We're not talking about shaving a minute or two off a dungeon, we're talking several. If a nervous peasant has a dagger, I'm not going to be as frustrated if he doesn't use it, but if that same peasant has a handgun, I'm going to get cranky if he isn't opening fire, even if I have an automatic rifle.

FFXIV's design is such that it encourages this DPS above all mentality. Couple that with parsers and it's easy to see why this game's playerbase as a whole has adopted a DPS > All Else mindset. Of course there are exceptions. As a healer, I prioritize healing and weave in DPS where I can. As a tank, I will do everything in my power to regain lost aggro, including swapping back into tank stance if needed and sacrificing DPS. As a DPS I will use all my emnity flushes and even ease up on the DPS if the tank is honestly struggling. But I know the prevalent mindset doesn't match mine. Sadly, FF XIV would require a core philosophical shift to address this issue. Tank and healer damage would have to be slashed to levels that make it a nice, small bonus, not a signifigant contribution to total instance damage...which would immediately cause wailing, screaming, torches and pitchforks. So, sadly, I expect the "Muh DPS!" mindset to continue for quite some time.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Hmmm seems I don't see your option there, though I do see that abusing the tool is a punishable act. But sounds like we're both better off for not playing together. I'm sure I'd absolutely hate having to deal with you in any content.

From a GM when asked this question directly.



Therefore, if I deem your preference to not spam Death Blossom and slow down the dungeon run a hindrance, I can kick you without any repercussions.

No, usually on 3-pack pulls I'm typically not doing anything at all, because there are so many AOEs to avoid that I literally can't do anything without dying.

Learn how to dodge better then. I play all four melee jobs and have no issues maintaining near constant uptime during mass pulls. Given Death Blossom, Hellfrog Medium and Katon all have long range, this excuse rings hollow. You just can't be bothered to AoE and are trying to defend it.

[DRKoftheAzure]

snip

At least you don't go on DRK and healer asks you to big pulls in any dungeon and you respond with no and hey throw a big nasty fit about and kick you because you said no... or just do it and healer can't keep and basically the healer goes "maybe we shouldn't do big pulls..." which can happen it's just that it is VERY RARE and is like trying to a get the right 280 Diadem Weapon WITH the right stats which that in itself is equivalent to finding Jesus... but luckily not THAT level of VERY RARE...

[Sylvain]

It happened once, me and my friend kept pulling the aggro and the tank wouldn't care, not even in tank stance. After a few death and both of us tanking the first boss. We started to wait that he'd bring a pack down to 60% before dpsing. It didn't take long before he started complaining. He wanted to kick us but unfortunately we were all 3 together against him. He ended leaving and we got a normal tank

[DeadlySevenSins]

Currently having this issue in my static, it's been a work in progress. People can argue it's a group effort, but when it's continually same problem with a tank then there is clearly an issue on their part. I also want to note that Diversion can only go so far, it's not really a good option to rely on. Rando's in dungeons are a little harder to tell. Although I do run across this all the time in 24-m... it seems every tank wants to take it easy and just dps, I have had to raise so many dps (or I die as a healer) a lot of times.

[Ekimmak]

Tank and healer damage would have to be slashed to levels that make it a nice, small bonus, not a signifigant contribution to total instance damage...which would immediately cause wailing, screaming, torches and pitchforks. So, sadly, I expect the "Muh DPS!" mindset to continue for quite some time.

Mostly because it would make more than a few instanced missions an obscene pain if your damage dealt becomes a pittance.