How does SE justify these ten min enrages, but doesnt let anyone know their dps

[Zeonsilt]

*puts hand up* I'm not interested in doing savage content or anything similar, and I don't hate parsers! I'm just an average casual I say blame the person, not the tool, if said parser user is being negative/non-constructive towards others regarding their dps. Just my two pence worth, some of us DO welcome constructive criticism, even if we don't parse our numbers or do hardcore content

That's the main thing.
This tool only needed in Savage/some EX trials and only because they put a "strict" (from a PUG perspective) enrage timers on some bosses.
It was common meeting enrage on Susano EX or Lakshmi EX some weeks ago.
p.s. I haven't seen anyone blamed for a "DPS" in Roulette/24 man raids(back in HW) or current Omega Normal.

[micropanther7]

Yeah I can see why it's needed, my suggestion would be for our own personal numbers only, with the option to toggle on/off for others to be able to view said numbers. People who are open and want to improve (regardless of difficulty level), will always be open to discussing their performance and share their results... people who don't, won't and sadly people will always be at loggerheads about that (know I'm stating the obvious here lol).

[HyoMinPark]

That's the only discussion on the party chat before I was kicked, trying to explain why I don't need Shield Oath because I'm not the one tanking. And yes, it has everything to do with the discussion since people actually believe harassement from "low" DPS numbers will obviously be punished...

Shield Oath? Or Sword Oath? Which is it because you've stated both. If you were off-tanking, you don't need Shield Oath. Since a PLD's only full combo at level 50 is the RoH combo, which just happens to be their enmity combo. I'm sure you know this already. So if you were in Shield Oath, and they politely ask you not to be, then the kick can be considered justified. If you were in Sword Oath and they asked you to be in Shield Oath because maybe you were taking too much damage, or, as a PLD, they wanted you to MT and not OT (this seems to be the case for some alliance groups, they prefer PLDs to default to MT so that WAR/DRK can OT), and you didn't comply, the kick could be consider justified if half the party or more thought you were disrupting the run. If you were in Sword Oath, and they kicked you for just being in Sword Oath and not Shield Oath, then they're just jerks. But that has nothing to do with parsers and how the parsers supposedly negatively affect the community.

If people are punished, you have no way of actually knowing unless they come forward and say something about it. The GMs do not tell anyone of any actions taken against those who are reported.

I did my fair share of Coil and tried Alex Savage back in 3.0, so I've seen what kind of mentality you can find in some parser users. I don't need to try Omega now to see that mentality still in place (if not worse), I just need to see what information is spread in the official forum.

And the Official Forum is an extremely small population of FFXIV's actual playerbase. Not a great sample to base mass opinions on.

[Remedi]

I'm not sure how you can even begin the type that he was saying anything like that when anyone can just listen to what he actually said and know that what you wrote there is not even remotely related to it. Heres the actual part where he was complaining about it https://youtu.be/L42N_gc_-zI?t=2h4m25s. Its pretty obvious he was actually talking about people using padded parses to show their epeen and had nothing to do with actually disliking fflogs itself(during the rant he even talks about the right way to use fflogs)

What I wanted to point out was that even some1 that raids savage can have an argument against parsers and fflogs because on how the community threats them, not that he's saying that parsers and logs shouldn't exist.
I want to make it clear I DO know that both are very useful tools but they are so when used correctly, also I'm not as naive as to think that the quality of the players will increase if they are ever added to the game.

edit: TLDR: my stance on parsers and fflogs is neutral, they are extremely useful but they are extremely toxic too

[Laurawrzz]

People can be parsed without their knowledge (some don't know they're on the parsing site). I've met a lot of people who check out people on that site and demand for them to be kicked. Report? Yes, but they'll do it again.

Since SB, this game has stopped being fun. I'm always feeling the pressure for the 'git gud' parsers. I've seen swathes of people being shamed and kicked. The biggest cause is enrage. There are Party Finders saying 'DPS below 3.5k = kick' and 'no Frenchies' because they stereotype French-speaking players as being bad. It's becoming a deeply racist and toxic community. Most of FF11 was staying alive, not doing X damage in X time. It was survival. It was overcoming as a team. People were always improving at their own rate. Not allowed in FF14.

I know this is my personal issue, I just needed to say it somewhere. I don't like where MMOs are heading, and I think I'm about to give up. The MMO community is destroying itself from the inside. Parsing is a cancer.

[Miste]

I've seen swathes of people being shamed and kicked.

I'm wondering how I've played this game for 4 years now and have not seen any of this happen really...I can think of like one or two instances of someone being kicked from a PF group in all those 4 years, yet you've seen this happen a lot? Something seems off about that...4 years and farming through PF very often too.

To be honest and completely fair though a PF group is a PF group. The leader gets to stipulate any and all rules for their party because they took the time to make it and lead it. They don't have the right to shame (insult or harass) anyone, but they do have full right to kick anyone they wish from their party since they created it and if you want to avoid situations like that then you also have the option to create and lead your own PF party where you make the rules.

There are Party Finders saying 'DPS below 3.5k = kick'

I farmed both Susano EX and Lakshmi EX and I never had this problem...but then again I wouldn't join PFs that say they are going to kick people for silly reasons either (you don't need that much DPS just to clear susano ex or lakshmi ex). If those PFs don't suit your needs then you join a different one that doesn't say those things or you create a PF party yourself and lead it.

I mean even on my data center I've seen some PFs say like 'one mistake = kick', but I just ignore those groups and don't join them. There are plenty of other groups that don't put those kinds of things in their PF message and I'll just join those instead. You can easily avoid these people if you choose to.

'no Frenchies' because they stereotype French-speaking players as being bad.

You're blaming parsers for this? I don't think that would be accurate or fair....this is just rude stereotype and the only thing you can do is try reporting it to a GM. Nothing to do with parsers at all...anyone who would write that in their PF is obviously just a rude person anyway.

[JunseiKei]

Haven't been on the forums in a bit, but to respond to this:

Clearly you did not read my original post or any other peoples post before commenting. I never asked SE for a parser I asked for a results list like we currently have in our pvp system, an enrage timer, and actual boss health by numbers not just percentage. Those three things I havent a clue how anyone could argue against, tell me in what way would having the bosses actual real number figure hp would be toxic instead of just a raw percentage.

Also what would be wrong with an enrage timer cause many times if four people die people are screaming healer lb and Ive never seen the healer lb ever save a run its a total waste outside 24 mans. And lastly what I mention was something like in the pvp system why is it ok for SE to plaster everyones contribution there but yet in pve we get nothing. I dont even have to have damage per second if they just replicated whats already in pvp and just purely gave damage done to boss, if your dps is doing worse than a healer or a tank why wouldnt that dps want to know this?

So no Im not asking for act althought I think its amazing, Im askin for things much more simple because I know SE will never allow a parser. But if you gona have the system in pvp , then why not in pve something that way more people use. And also other people have said they have hit enrage with no deaths simply because not enough damage, if you have all dps doing just 1000 dps you not clearing anything in sb wit these enrage timers regaurdless of death.

But Im not asking for a parse Im asking for whats already in the game a system like the pvp one , Even tho Id love act to be in the game but I know SE has a hard stand on that. But you cant truely think that these short enrages with no timers is ok and yet we know nothing at all. Hec we dont even know how much death effects our dps, we are 100 percent blinde at least a parse brings light to the darkness right now we got nothing. I asked for a health bar with a number figure of health, an enrage timer, and something like pvp style at the end that shows ur damage per second etc. Im not askin for something like act I know we want get anything of the sort, but they have shown with what they have in pvp that they are very capable of showing dps at the end of a fight.

On enrage timers and being blind:
We have the Stone, Sky and Sea. The dummy's HP is tailor to every job and is meant to show that if you keep up whatever you are doing, you can complete this fight on this class. It takes into account mechanics that need to be performed, otherwise you'd end up never being able to pass the SSS dummy. What it doesn't tell you is if YOU can still sustain DPS while doing mechanics. Great example: I see melee come off Lakshmi when they get the cross mechanic, even if they are the only melee. During the whole time they have this mechanic, they are not DPSing. They can completely sit on the boss and sustain their DPS; all that mechanic requires is for you to not stack them with other mechanics that are happening. Things like this show people are more than capable of clearing the fight (if they did the dummy), but execute poor understanding of the fight to actually do it correctly and incur needless loss. A result page at the end of a fight won't change this. Showing personal DPS after a fight won't change this. Doing research, like watching streamers that are good players, or videos put up by YouTubers that are good players, can change this.

How much death affects your DPS:
Weakness and Brink of Death debuffs tell you that your main stats are reduced by 25% or 50% over a time of 100 seconds (and another 100 seconds for Brink of Death if knocked out while you have Weakness). Considering your main stat is only ever second to weapon damage, that's a HUGE reduction. You don't need to actually see the reduction to understand that's absolutely terrible.

PvP result page:
So... you want a leaderboard. That's the only thing it serves in PvP. It shows how much was healed, knock-outs, assists, damage to players and damage to environment. PvP and PvE are cats to dogs. How you DPS in PvP is not the same as PvE nor will you heal in PvP the same as in PvE.

On healer LB:
It's a progression tool. The only fight that ever "needed" it was A4S. Most fights, it won't save the group because if you're already at the point that you need it, more than likely, you're just going to die again because of lack of understanding to the fight or mechanic. Dun Scaith was a great example of this; watching groups wipe, saved by healer LB and wipe again. Only to have the group that actually understood the fight never use healer LB and carry everyone else to the clear.

I cannot imagine hitting enrage on a primal due to no deaths. I've been in a group here or there where DPS wasn't the best, but still cleared. No deaths. Were people just AFKing or auto-attacking? Or were they doing silly things like coming off a boss unnecessarily, like in Lakshmi? Which is pretty common from what I've seen. Still, never seen enrage being hit from sheer lack of DPS on 0 deaths in any of the years I've played since ARR launched sans in raids/savage. On the contrary- I've seen more wipes due to too much DPS than lack of DPS. Either you're that unlucky or I'm that lucky.

Still, a result page at the end won't change anything you're complaining about.

Nor would a parser.

Nor would anything sans simple research. However, the problems you're speaking of already exist from a lack of research.

Mechanics and DPS aren't mutually exclusive. Look at OS3, for instance - it demands a relatively high amount of damage from each player, but is also pretty mechanics-heavy. The job of a DPS is to push out as much damage as possible while doing mechanics correctly - I'm not sure what your point is.

And very few of those mechanics have long lengths of downtime, especially compared to Alexander, which had huge lengths of downtime (okay, some fights did and others did not). Longest bouts of DPS loss I can think of are "animal farm" (which the DPS should be failing the last mechanic only to maximize DPS), taking the physical/magical buffs since they put you into the Out of Action status, the proximity adds, or breaking vines. Everything else I can think of, you're always hitting something. So, yeah, it's mechanic heavy, but mechanic heavy need not mean DPS loss heavy. Even with Spellblade Holy in library phase, you have enough time to hit the boss between that mechanic and Squelch to not suffer any real loss.

Then look at something like A5S. A fight where you will be dropping all buffs/rotations to do the fight's mechanics. Multiple times.

[Reynhart]

Shield Oath? Or Sword Oath? Which is it because you've stated both.

That last time, I was kicked for being in Sword Oath...while off tanking Scylla...

That's the only discussion on the party chat before I was kicked, trying to explain why I don't need Shield Oath because I'm not the one tanking.

So, I was in Sword Oath because I didn't need Shield Oath, since I wasn't the one tanking the boss.

And the Official Forum is an extremely small population of FFXIV's actual playerbase. Not a great sample to base mass opinions on.

But if the mentality on the forum hasn't changed, it's safe to say the mentality of the community hasn't changed too. You have the same percentage of jerk elitists, the same percentage of good-willed elitists, the same percentage of lazy people and the same huge percentage of people that absolutely don't care. So there's no reason that the people I'll meet in Omega Savage would be different from those I met in Coil or (Especially) Alex Savage.

[Dualgunner]

But if the mentality on the forum hasn't changed, it's safe to say the mentality of the community hasn't changed too. You have the same percentage of jerk elitists, the same percentage of good-willed elitists, the same percentage of lazy people and the same huge percentage of people that absolutely don't care. So there's no reason that the people I'll meet in Omega Savage would be different from those I met in Coil or (Especially) Alex Savage.

Got any evidence to back that claim up? To hear you tell it, the forums are a vertical slice of the community with exact proportions to the game as a whole.

[Laurawrzz]

I apologise, it's hard for me to express myself due to 1000 character limit.

To Miste: I see kicks and shaming regularly - don't know what to tell you. Maybe you're just lucky

Due to an awareness of parsers I'm always feeling the pressure for the 'git gud' parsers. I now know there's nearly always someone parsing and putting the result of people who don't know on Logs.

I don't join these groups but they're increasing fast. I'm struggling to ignore it now. Racist, horrible comments and DPS-obssessed parsers everywhere. You can report, but nothing's going to happen. It's almost the norm.

I wasn't saying anti French is due to parsing, I was listing as a symptom of an incresingly sick community. I played FF11 for 4 years and I've been playing FF14 on and off since the start and I've never known such a cult of hatred. Things have absolutely soured since SB and the popularisation of parsers in general. This just isn't the game it was, and MMOs are not the games they were.