How does SE justify these ten min enrages, but doesnt let anyone know their dps

[Dualgunner]

If you do a slightly better rotation than someone else, and have a much higher gear, even your lowered DPS can be higher than them.

Do people answer simple, direct questions around here?

Have you done any of the raids this tier in savage?

And now a followup question: Can you give me an example of a mechanic you can fail at and maintain or even increase dps while doing so? Particularly one where your rotation being "slightly better" with "much higher" (mind we're within 25 average iLv of each other in savage by necessity) gear yields enough added damage that the damage lost through failing a mechanic is nullified?

Mind, failing a mechanic in various savage fights can result in, but is not limited to: death (25% downgrade to ALL damage), double death (50% damage downgrade), damage down (My veraero/verthunders dropped to 1000 damage apiece when I got hit with this in v3s), vuln up (damage down on healers since they now have to focus your hp so you don't die, and if you do die, see death), getting damage down / vuln up on party members, and finally getting party members killed.

All of these mechanics that, failing them, reduce damage well past the point one person's godly dps can save the fight. So I'll return to my original point:

So where does this "person who does mechanics flawlessly but has bad dps versus person who screws up every mechanic but has godly dps" image come from? Because I can't think of many fights where flubbing mechanics doesn't negatively impact your dps.

I'll add it's not even a false dichotomy. It's not even a dichotomy, that second person just doesn't exist because if you're not doing mechanics you HAVE no DPS.

[HyoMinPark]

I think people look at the dummies wrong. the dummies don't tell you if you have what it takes to actually clear a savage or extreme fight. what they tell you is whether you at least have the potential to clear that fight before you even try. if you can't beat a dummy with 100% uptime there is no way at all you're going to be able to do enough dps to clear the actual fight without getting carried by the rest of the party..

they're an entry point basically. not a decree that you can clear it

Which is exactly what I was saying, compared to the poster that I was responding to, who was insinuating that SSS is an accurate substitute for something like a parser or DPS meter. They were basically saying that we don't need DPS meters to know our own personal damage because the SSS dummies provide just that, where as they do not.

Yes, it does. It's, again, called training dummies. Instead of measuring numbers, people can measure how fast they kill it. What's best is that if you can kill it, whatever time remains, it means you do enough DPS, and you shouldn't care if people try to harass you into doing much more just because they have stupidly high standards.

And just because you can clear a dummy with 100% uptime doesn't mean that you can clear the content with 100% uptime, or even the DPS you had when you cleared the dummy. There's a lot more that goes into clearing than just your damage per second. Like others have said, clearing savage is a balance act between executing mechanics and pushing out as much DPS as you possibly can. Which is why my argument about how SSS dummies are not an accurate representation of the fight still stands.

And to answer the last part of his quote: why would you settle for just enough DPS to clear the dummy? Why would you not want to push yourself to improve and push out more? I don't understand the mindset some have where they're fine with having "just enough" DPS or "just enough" skill to clear something. Why not push yourself to get even better? Where is the will for self-improvement?

[Reynhart]

Have you done any of the raids this tier in savage?

No, I haven't.

- It's a DPS gain to use Life Surge on Wheeling Thrust or Fang & Claw if, and only if, you would otherwise have to delay it a full combo to line up with Full Thrust.

I didn't need a parser or someone calling me out to know that. I just needed the desire to improve myself and knowledge from some DRG guide.

Like others have said, clearing savage is a balance act between executing mechanics and pushing out as much DPS as you possibly can.

Which is not a DPS issue. Any top player will have its number go down until he learn how to deal with the mechanics.

And to answer the last part of his quote: why would you settle for just enough DPS to clear the dummy? Why would you not want to push yourself to improve and push out more? I don't understand the mindset some have where they're fine with having "just enough" DPS or "just enough" skill to clear something. Why not push yourself to get even better? Where is the will for self-improvement?

Parsers are not required to improve oneself, but are one of the best way for people to chastize other. And lazy people won't suddenly become invested if they see their actual numbers. The simple fact that you think "not wanting a parser" is the same as "just do barely enough" is part of the mentality I've issues with.

[HyoMinPark]

Parsers are not required to improve oneself, but are one of the best way for people to chastize other. And lazy people won't suddenly become invested if they see their actual numbers. The simple fact that you think "not wanting a parser" is the same as "just do barely enough" is part of the mentality I've issues with.

Which wasn't what I was saying, but feel free to put words in my mouth. You said yourself that if you have the DPS to clear the dummy, you have enough for a Savage fight, so why bother to improve. Why bother to do more. That is what I take issues with. Why would you not want to improve? That doesn't have anything to do with wanting a parser or not wanting a parser.

In my experience, when people have asked for their numbers/if anyone was parsing a run, and they are told what they did, if it wasn't as high as they wanted or what they thought, what did they usually say? "I will see what I can do better to bring those numbers up, because I have done higher before/want to do better." Again, I have met ONE person that ever harassed people in a party over their parses, and, ironically enough, that person wasn't even top DPS, much less pulling the numbers they were expecting everyone else to pull.

[Dualgunner]

No, I haven't.

Thank you for the answer.

I find fault in your ideology regarding parsers. You assume the worst of people, and it's not necessarily a fair assumption or an accurate one. Now I have to ask if you have any evidence at all to support your claims that parsers lead to the behavior you are claiming they will.

[Fynlar]

I do think it's rather funny how they officially call the role "DPS" but there is no in-house way to actually determine what that figure is.

Enrage is not about parse results, it is about dying too much.

I've seen enrages happen in fights where nobody died, so not really.

[Reynhart]

You said yourself that if you have the DPS to clear the dummy, you have enough for a Savage fight, so why bother to improve.

No, I said that you had enough to not be harassed. That's a huge difference.

Now I have to ask if you have any evidence at all to support your claims that parsers lead to the behavior you are claiming they will.

No, I haven't. But I didn't even said that. Jerks are jerks. Giving them a parser just give them the right to be jerks, considering how little is done when an in-game system is blatanly abused. And for that, my evidence is the votekick system.

[HyoMinPark]

NNo, I haven't. But I didn't even said that. Jerks are jerks. Giving them a parser just give them the right to be jerks, considering how little is done when an in-game system is blatanly abused. And for that, my evidence in the votekick system.

False. Jerks will be jerks regardless of if they have access to a parser or not. With regards to this supposed "votekick abuse" you keep talking about, if any actions are taken against those who abuse the votekick system, there would be no way for you to know about said actions taken unless they came forward and said they were gaoled/suspended/banned for it. So how can you accurately say that nothing is being done about it?

[Dualgunner]

No, I haven't. But I didn't even said that. Jerks are jerks. Giving them a parser just give them the right to be jerks, considering how little is done when an in-game system is blatanly abused. And for that, my evidence is the votekick system.

I'm going to set aside the fact that two sentences after saying that you never claimed there'd be a behavioral shift, you say that parsers will cause a behavioral shift. EDIT: To clarify, if there is no behavioral shift from giving players parsers, then there is no problem.

Giving a parser to the playerbase does not legitimize griefing. If anything, anyone who thinks that and acts accordingly will get hit hard by mods because now all the evidence of griefing will be in the player logs. HyoMin also makes a point that you do not and can not know about actions taken against votekick abuse.

[Brannigan]

I didn't need a parser or someone calling me out to know that. I just needed the desire to improve myself and knowledge from some DRG guide.

Improvement without the proper tools and feedback is like trying to navigate without a map. You can eventually get to where you're headed, but it'll probably take a lot longer. One of the reasons people find it so hard to transition to more difficult content in this game is that the normal content they're doing doesn't provide enough feedback for their mistakes (i.e. death). There won't be any impetus to improve unless you know something is wrong, which you won't without a parse.

At this point I've given up since the devs have shown themselves to be completely aligned against stuff that offers technical feedback (crit numbers, det effects, etc) or adds incentives to raid (i.e. loot) so I don't expect them to suddenly flip on parsing.