How does SE justify these ten min enrages, but doesnt let anyone know their dps

[Bourne_Endeavor]

It's not my damage, it's our damage. The group needs to work as one to raid in this game. Dps isn't all there is to down a boss, but if parser becomes a thing then it's gonna become all about those numbers.

You can use it responsibly? Great! A lot of other people can't and won't. It adds way too little of value compared to how shortsighted it makes the game.

Try asking your raid group to help you improve by looking at and analyzing your preformance. Teamwork and actual interaction.

And what if your raid group doesn't know your selected job well? While I could give a baseline on how Monk or Machinist perform, I certainly wouldn't be able to help someone optimize it. A parse compares you directly to others who play your job. Whenever I see Samurai or Dragoons doing something different, I can pull up their FFlogs and see if my rotation needs a tweak or if it were simply gear differences. A tool shouldn't be banned because jerks exist. If that were the case, we may as well get rid of Vote Kick/Abandon. People occasionally abuse those.

FFXIV is a straight forward game dependent on a set rotation and set variables. A parse won't make that any different.

[Dualgunner]

Even better a parser that tells you how much you are close to the average of your job

Earlier you brought up a point that a parser and a log are different things. I agree with this separation of terms, however at the moment the best way to access logs for this game is achieved through parser (I speak of FFLogs).

EDIT: I only bring up FFLogs and its reliance on parsers because the logs do allow us to see damage averages for jobs in multiple percentiles but again, is wholly reliant on being able to upload a parse to the site.

[Khemorex]

snippi ti snip

the answer is pretty easy and straightforward ^^ use your brain

[bswpayton]

the answer is pretty easy and straightforward ^^ use your brain

I dont follow cause Im not sure which comment your replying to

[Reynhart]

It can also be seen as not being used enough, especially in comparison to other players.

As a DRG, I don't need to compare myself to others to realize if I skipped too much Life Surge of Geirskogul. And the parser won't tell me the theorycrafting behind Life Surge optimization.

In general with buffs not showing up in party (and instead being delegated to the job gauges) as well as disabling spell graphics for some players, it's harder to tell how one is performing simply by looking for cues.

Considering we're talking about personal performance, "buffs not showing" is off-topic.

Answer me this , because u seem to be very anti damage awareness.

I'm not. I'm against parsers, because it let players decide if you're performing well enough, which will inevitably backfire if it's made officially usable by the whole community. As for the difference between PvP and PvE, it's simple. Apart from top tier teams, PvE is not competitive. The purpose is to clear the content, and the vast majority doesn't care if they cleared it in 9m or in 8m30s. The problem with parser, and again, player judgment on how well you perform, is that the "slow" kill would quickly be consifered lacking by the "standards" set by the top teams. Even without a parser, people will bitch about tank staying too much in tank stance in primal EX, i.e, content that nobody even consider "competitive".

[HyoMinPark]

The reaching for straws is becoming unbelievable in this thread.

And what a happy voting bunch these parse users are. Gosh after all these pages it's embarrassing just to read more.

I mean. No one is forcing you to continue reading it. Just saying.

Easy fix. Make killing the training dummy mandatory for entering the corresponding content.

Yes, it does. It's, again, called training dummies. Instead of measuring numbers, people can measure how fast they kill it. What's best is that if you can kill it, whatever time remains, it means you do enough DPS, and you shouldn't care if people try to harass you into doing much more just because they have stupidly high standards.

Beating on a dummy for 3 minutes and actually entering a fight--especially one that is mechanic heavy like, say, V3S or V4S--are two entirely different things. I can shoot a dummy all day long. Doesn't necessarily mean I have what it takes to consistently clear V3S or V4S. Aside from the fact that the dummies are solo exercises, and take zero consideration for party performance. A DPS's performance will vary significantly between solo and group settings, some classes more so than others (example: BRD).

Not to mention, these dummies don't have any outgoing damage to prepare healing jobs for the healing requirements of a piece of content.

Unless they start adding random AOE telegraphs to the SSS dummies, they're hardly an accurate representation on if someone actually has what it takes to do Savage or Extreme content. And they certainly aren't an adequate substitute for a parser or DPS meter, which is an invaluable tool for self-growth if one knows how to use it properly.

Maintaining DPS while standing still is extremely easy. Maintaining DPS while having to dodge and have, in general, higher situational awareness is not as easy.

Addition: Also, tired of seeing this argument about how people expect everyone to play like the Top 1% of Top Raiders. In my almost two years of playing this game, I've never encountered anyone in DF or PF that ever mandated that everyone should be 99th percentile. Most groups I'm in say nothing about overall DPS unless there are multiple wipes or multiple enrages; and usually it's "DPS is a little low," something that doesn't even require a parser to tell if you're hitting enrage consistently with the boss still at 20% or more. After doing a fight several times, one can usually tell when DPS is lacking, parser or no parser.

I have never encountered players demanding that healers DPS (or don't DPS), or that tanks drop tank stance. Besides, judging players based on those two examples doesn't even require a parser; one can easily just watch them during a fight (or watch their status bar in the party list) and choose to say something about how "WHM isn't DPSing" or "WAR isn't dropping Defiance for Deliverance after establishing hate." Parsers aren't required for that kind of analysis.

It's not my damage, it's our damage. The group needs to work as one to raid in this game. Dps isn't all there is to down a boss, but if parser becomes a thing then it's gonna become all about those numbers.

Correct. And, parser or no parser, the minimum Raid DPS required to successfully down a fight is still going to exist. So I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say here. All I was saying was parsers are an excellent tool for individual growth. They are also an excellent tool for static growth when used properly. So my initial argument still stands.

Try asking your raid group to help you improve by looking at and analyzing your preformance. Teamwork and actual interaction.

And if my raid group knows nothing about how my job actually works? How does that help me? How can they give me job-specific advice to feed my personal growth if they have zero idea how my job actually functions? Example: when I was discussing with my static's healers some healing tactics to make healing V2S a little easier and less MP taxing on them, one of our tanks actually said "That sounds like sound advice. I don't know any of the healing jobs well enough to offer our healers any advice on how they function." Where as I do (at least with regards to AST and WHM; a lesser extent for SCH). Meanwhile, I don't have a good knowledge of the way each tank functions in SB, but both of my static tanks do. They frequently discuss tanking tactics with one another, while using parser and video data as supplements.

You can still use parsers and communicate with your static about improving. You can still use parsers to fuel teamwork and interaction as well.

[Reynhart]

Beating on a dummy for 3 minutes and actually entering a fight--especially one that is mechanic heavy like, say, V3S or V4S--are two entirely different things. I can shoot a dummy all day long. Doesn't necessarily mean I have what it takes to consistently clear V3S or V4S.

If the fight is mechanic heavy, and you fail the mechanics, we don't really care how much DPS you do. You first goal is to properly deal with mechanics. Another problem with parsers, is that people will stare at them, and, at the end of day, will only judge the resulting number, without caring why the number is low. Worse, someone who manage every mechanic correctly, but lack some skills in his rotation or some stuff might do lower damage that a stronger/easier character in the hands of the players that fail every mechanic, and will be the one to be punished because he's "bad".

As for healing requirement, it's not really a problem, and we don't need tools to see if people died or not. But yes, dummies could retaliate regurlarly to give an idea on HP/healing checks. Which, again, doesn't require a parser

A little clarification, though. I know a parser is only a tool, and the more important thing is how people use it. However, if you give them to everyone, nice people will still use it nicely to help people improve, which they probably already does, either by an unofficial parser, or simplye by giving guidelines and advice, but jerkass will have the right to call you out on your number, whatever stupid requirement they arbitrary decide to put on you.

[Greedalox]

If the fight is mechanic heavy, and you fail the mechanics, we don't really care how much DPS you do. You first goal is to properly deal with mechanics. Another problem with parsers, is that people will stare at them, and, at the end of day, will only judge the resulting number

Funnily enough, it's that mindset that will end up getting you hit by the most daunting fight mechanic of all- the enrage. DPS AND mechanics are vital, not one priority over another. They work hand in hand and in conjunction.

Side note, anecdotally my buddy improved 800ish dps in a week yesterday with 1 iLvl upgrade after playing with a parser. People claim it won't make everyone better but it does clearly help some. It helped him find some holes in his rotation. He's ecstatic!

[Avatre]

Funnily enough, it's that mindset that will end up getting you hit by the most daunting fight mechanic of all- the enrage. DPS AND mechanics are vital, not one priority over another. They work hand in hand and in conjunction.

I would say mechanics come priority, as once you know those mechanics THEN you can keep DPSing while dodging/dealing with the mechanics of the fight. Yes, the DPS is needed to kill before the enrage, BUT if you keep dying to the mechanics, that is an even larger loss of DPS due to downtime, healer/RDM needing to res and heal the dead person and not DPSing, the weakness buff, low MP/TP if your skills to replenish are on CD, and needing to get back in there without much delay.

When I first started, the guy that was teaching me the game told me to focus on living through fights(I had just unlocked Titan EX) then work on my DPS.

On the topic of parsers, yes, they do help you improve yourself if you're willing to try. They also do give some people that superiority complex and they decide to discriminate(don't see it often - or ever in my case - but hear stories about it quite often), and those people should be giving the solid boot to the throat.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

If the fight is mechanic heavy, and you fail the mechanics, we don't really care how much DPS you do. You first goal is to properly deal with mechanics. Another problem with parsers, is that people will stare at them, and, at the end of day, will only judge the resulting number, without caring why the number is low. Worse, someone who manage every mechanic correctly, but lack some skills in his rotation or some stuff might do lower damage that a stronger/easier character in the hands of the players that fail every mechanic, and will be the one to be punished because he's "bad".

No they won't unless you party up with idiots. Any good raider will prioritize mechanics over DPS. The idea is a seamless balance between both, which a parser allows since you can better micromanage your damage. Your example of Life Surge is flawed due to its simplicity. What a parse tells you is:

- It's a DPS gain to use Life Surge on Wheeling Thrust or Fang & Claw if, and only if, you would otherwise have to delay it a full combo to line up with Full Thrust.
- The order to utilize your buffs to maximize their potential
- Potential holes in your rotation (Doom Spike + Sonic Thrust can be a DPS gain on a single target if timed to save BotD)

These smaller nuisances add up, which only helps players improve. You cite "jerkasses will call you out." Only if the devs suddenly stop enforcing their harassment polices. We can't call people out now. Why would that change because an official parse released?