SMN 4.06 Changes

[technole]

Currently the Ruin 4 proc is just a way to "undo" the Ruin III nerf temporarily. We are not fooled by this non-sense.

[Senliten]

Sustain is not the only thing wrong but the lack of sustain makes pets USELESS (particularly Titan) outside a group where an actual healer *might* heal it...physick on SMN might as well not even exist.

Honestly, anyone that says we don't need it, should go and try and Titan Tank Shisui, with a full set of 260 gear, then come back and say its not needed still. Specifically the Ruby Princess, with mechanics that force you into a situation to use no abilities for a set period of time. At that point, Titan is nearly one shotted (sub 1000hp) thanks to a follow up AoE and if healers don't react fast, after the old man debuff wears off, hello dps queues once more.Sustain would actually be of one benefit for this specific scenario due to the wind up time of the charm mechanic that you interact with a chest to avoid, which gives you time to cast a sustain before the chest interaction and charm going off, cause you cannot do anything action wise in the old man state, so the near room wide aoe after the charm can not be as much of a 'oh shit hang in there titan' reaction when it goes out.

Also, before anyone asks why I even suggest this or why did I do such a thing. Cause Party Finder is a dick with full premades for dungeon grinding, esp if the tank drops.

Everything else issue wise sticks out like a sore thumb, and has been mentioned repeatedly, but I have yet to see anyone give a legitimate counter argument as to why we honestly don't need sustain, aside from the preemptive assumption that it's only used just for soloing and healers can just AoE it in a group or raid, which this would mean trusting your healer to you know, do their job given the situation played out.

Just going to end off on my rant here and say that SE needs to say if we are a pet class or are slated to be a glorified BLM with summons. This wishy washy going back and forth and fucking up our identity is causing more headaches than there needs to be and if we are supposed to be having our pets and will be continuing to rely on them, then they need to give us a means of self utility to help keep them alive. All pet classes have at least one form of pet aspected heal, this is a staple to the pet classes, which extends as far back to the days of EQ (Necro, Mage) and DAoC (Cabalist).

TL;DR for the 'unsustainers': Titan tank shisui in full i260, and come back and say you still believe we don't need sustain. Oh, and have healer and melee dps in full 310 to get the added effect of keeping up with enmity.

[Dyvid]

Ruin

Ruin

Mentioned this in another thread:
Ruin I : 100 Potency instant cast
Ruin II : Change to Ruinga, 40 or 50 Potency AoE attack
Ruin III : Lower MP cost to be used outside of DWT then change it to higher potency in DWT
Ruin IV : Instant Cast

Another thing I would like to see and mentioned in my Demi-Bahamut makeover is ruin causing pet skills proc. Basically a __% chance that ruin would proc a pet"s basic attack (Burning Strike, Wind Blade, Wyrmwave) into a strong attack (Meteor Strike, Slipstream, Mega-Flare).

Another thought would be to rework Titan Egi from a tank to a defensive buff/debuff pet and replace Garuda Egi's stupid Shock wave with razor plume; a DoT attack.

[Xie_Belvoule]

I like your idea Dyvid, the only thing I would add is Ruin 4 always procs in DWT just like pvp.

Also your sig feels like it sums up the problem with Summoner (pun intended) in that everyone wants to play SMN but not the one we have in game.

[KarstenS]

I really hope ...

"we need to make several changes to summoner's system"

... will be more than just the size of Bahamut.

[Silver-Strider]

Why is Demi-Bahamuat so big when SMN LB3 Bahamuat is so compact?

[kobe-sabi]

SMN need a way to take off debuff off too, only ppl who care about your pet is yourself, SE should fix this so a SMN can keep their pet alive and status effect free

[Grimoire-M]

I posted this in that Dev team thread, but I'll quote it here:

There are a lot of things wrong with SMN:

• Weak AoE damage due to the loss of Blizzard II and (more importantly) the Bane nerf.
• Contagion's change makes sense, but it's also horrible. Why is this a pet CD when we need to hold our entire burst phase back for it?
• Poorly thought out mana changes results in constant, meaningless Ruin III spam. We can do it forever with Lucid Dreaming, but it doesn't feel impactful now due to the nerfs to its potency.
• Dreadwyrm Trance and Aethertrail are overly restrictive when it comes to using Aetherflow, punishing you severely for accidentally hitting it, or if you screw up and die to a mechanic.
• Ruin IV and the enkindle procs feel like a bandaid rather than anything meaningful.
• Devotion is a poorly thought out ability that doesn't contribute enough for the effort it takes to use on an intended target.

Here are some potential changes that could fix these issues:

• Make Aetherflow and Aethertrail seperate buffs that can exist at the same time, like in HW. All it needed before was the Aethertrail timer removed, and the class would've been perfect.
• While we're at it, allow Aetherflow to be used during DWT again.
• Make Tri-Disaster's Ruin Potency buff also apply to Tri-Bind. Make it spreadable to other targets via Bane.
• Revert some of the Bane nerf. Not all of it. Some. Simply make the minimum 40% instead of 20% and it'll be fine.
• Change the pet Ruin IV proc to instead proc off of our Ruin spells. Flat 25% chance outside of DWT, no crit involved. 100% during DWT. Make Ruin IV itself instant cast too, so we can actually weave oGCDs during DWT without clipping.
• The enkindle proc could honestly be removed, or changed to only proc when you use Ruin IV, so you get some slight control over it.
• The Fester/Painflare CD reduction changes are fine, but I'd just set them all to be the same as Energy Drain, 3s long.
• Integrate Bahamut into DWT, so every third you instead get a 20% magic buff plus him, and using Aetherflow Actions during that period makes him use Akh Morn. Reduce his potencies and Akh Morn's damage to compensate.
• Swap Contagion and Devotion around. Make Devotion an AoE 5% healing buff in the process. Garuda should provide less damage given her safety to begin with, so this is fine.
• Consider swapping Radiant Shield to be a 5% damage reduction buff. Don't keep the spikes effect.
• Nerf Ruin II to 80 potency so booksmacking at low mana isn't a thing anymore. It's our movement skill. Keep it that way.
• Nerf pet damage to compensate for these buffs if needed. Not our personal dps. They can't dodge, we can.
• I don't have a good solution to the Ruin III spam, tbh. SMN needs mana cost adjustments to solve that issue.
• Also save Aetherflow/Dreadwyrm Aether stacks while dead.

Note: I don't care about the pets that much. They're not what SMN is actually about, and while that's a problem, it's one that can't be fixed in the short term. Hell, the DWT change I mentioned will take forever to implement, but it's actually doable, and I'm surprised it wasn't a thing in the first place.

[Cressidia]

TL;DR for the 'unsustainers': Titan tank shisui in full i260, and come back and say you still believe we don't need sustain. Oh, and have healer and melee dps in full 310 to get the added effect of keeping up with enmity.

I am sorry but What is this nonsense about ? Why are we need to tank dungeon ? It is tank job to tank the boss why you need Titan to tank it ? Is SMN tank now ?

[Clink]

Hello adventurers,

Thank you all for continuing to provide feedback on summoner and the adjustments made in Patch 4.06.

As some players have pointed out, Yoshida made a comment regarding summoner adjustments on a recent community broadcast before the release of Patch 4.06:

"I believe we need to make several changes to summoner's system, but it will take some time and it will not be ready by Patch 4.06. Therefore, we'll make adjustments that can be done through data first."

We understand that you may be anxious for more information, but for now we wanted to share an acknowledgement that the team is aware of your concerns and is looking into how to proceed.

Thank you again for continuing to provide extensive feedback and suggestions. Please continue to share your thoughts with us, and we'll be sure to pass it along to the dev. team!

Can't wait to see the changes. Thank you for clarifying.