SMN 4.06 Changes

**Karshan** · 09-05-2017 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by Neela

...Bahamuts potency is fucking laughable which can be beaten by deathflare which shouldn't be the case... they should keep mention that its just poor pet potency... : /

Indeed, pet potency is only 80% of character potency : 100 for garuda is equivalent to 80 in "our" potency, 160 for Wyrmwaves is a 128 and 680 for Akh Morn is a 550.
If you use Garuda, and use Wyrmwaves correctly when Bahamut is up, you go from 80 pot every 3 sec to 256 (128 every 1.5 sec) about 5 times (6 if lucky but let's go for high latency figures) + 2 x 550, which is a 2000 potency boost while Bahamut is around (which is every 2 min) as compared to when he is not.

Which is a 17 pot/sec boost when you reach 70 compared to when you are 69. I believe that really compensates for the nerfs, considering how people reach 165-170 on O1S (and with current gear, a gain of 17 pot/sec is roughly 500 DPS).

HOWEVER, I agree that using him is a pain in the ass so we have a class with great theoretical pps BUT it requires way more monitoring and focus to reach it than other classes. A good class to farm a fight you know well, a very difficult class when it comes to progress so you just go RDM and that is just sad when it used to be your main.

**Neela** · 09-05-2017 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by Karshan

HOWEVER, I agree that using him is a pain in the ass so we have a class with great theoretical pps BUT it requires way more monitoring and focus to reach it than other classes. A good class to farm a fight you know well, a very difficult class when it comes to progress so you just go RDM and that is just sad when it used to be your main.

I think this is what most of the smns did shortly after omega dropped.... me as well even I dislike RDM personally... trying to go with RDM in progress but couldn't get used to it changing back to smn on o3s progress what turned out as not the baddest idea - but yeah going with smn as main in unknown territory can be a bit of pain atm. I wonder what the devs have in mind for 4.1....

**Baka_Neko1** · 09-22-2017 08:41 AM

smns do solid dmg and have battle res. what's the issue? you have to work for it? figuring out optimal rotations is part of the fun of difficult jobs. high skill floors are fun. git gud. also, i'm not a smn. lol

**Aletin** · 09-22-2017 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Elkanah

Cause smn is basically the most useless of dps in all categories right now in content lol. It's the new loldrg of StormBlood.

I'm sorry... What? Why do people perpetuate this lie? SMN performs absolutely fine in content and is actually superior to RDM in both Single Target and AoE Dps with comparable if not better support capabilities. The only thing RDM has over SMN is Vercure and Verraise which shouldn't even be needed.
The issues with SMN are programming issues that cause it to be clunky and being extremely punishing on death. Both can be fixed with QoL patches.
SMN DOES NOT NEED A DPS/UTILITY BUFF

**EllieShadeflare** · 09-22-2017 02:17 PM

As one of my friends who has actually been researching the potency of Summoner has found out, Summoner's only real problem is its disgustingly high skill floor vs any other DPS... but it's more than capable of hitting the same marks as other DPS. In fact, as it currently stands, it can hit a solid 7k parse. To compare, this makes it the fourth most powerful DPS, only under Samurai, Black Mage and Monk, from strongest to weakest.

https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/17#dataset=100

At best, Summoner just needs QoL changes to lower its skill floor, and make it more accessible... and perhaps actually get some better research done.

**dinnertime** · 09-22-2017 04:00 PM

Yes, SMN's damage was never the problem and I don't see most people assume it was after people realised that the "nerfs" SMN got in the SB changes were actually to balance things.

The problem is the skill disparity and how the gameplay is very clunky, poorly thought out and the job being the most punishing if you die.
Meanwhile it also has a bunch of button bloat so their goal to minimize the skill disparity and reduce button bloat with jobs failed miserably with SMN.

**Aletin** · 09-22-2017 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by Elkanah

...always puts SMN at #4, and I'm always around #1/2 spot on RDM myself in dps. I will take back my statement if the issue isn't so much the smn class, but the user friendliness of the skills surrounding it.

The issue with SMN is the user friendliness, the rotation to achieve top dps is super tight and punishing upon death. Even using aetherflow wrong punishes you immensely.

Using [Forbidden Program Name] does display SMN DPS lower than it actually is, as [Forbidden Program Name] doesn't calculate Dreadwyrm Trance properly. So SMNs are usually have about 10% higher DPS than displayed.

**Savagelf** · 09-22-2017 10:04 PM

the problem is summoner doesn't feel like summoner anymore.

this why they should tried make it feel like summoner again

pet Job aren't away user friendly. name one pet Job that use friendly

I think Yoshi P need accept pet jobs will be less user friendly but more fun. if this can come then improve the summoner will be easyer. just go for make more like a summoner

my suggest was away let Egi grown with the summoner this may also reduce it user friendliness aswell. I not sure the ideal of dreadwyrm Trance was an ideal planned with summoner when realm reborn first came out'
I think the lesson has away been listen to the players who suggest to improve the Egi this has away been issue. the summoner is kind a reflection of ffxiv 1.0 when the devs don't listen to players about suggest improve the Egi themselves

**Karshan** · 09-23-2017 02:32 AM

Originally Posted by Savagelf

I think Yoshi P need accept pet jobs will be less user friendly but more fun.

? On the contrary, the very thing that most people don't like is his clunkyness (not user friendly at all). As someone said, the power is not a problem : all parses fused, all bosses combined on Savage, SMN has climbed from n°7 to currently n° 2 (look on the far right the second curve : https://fr.fflogs.com/statistics/17#...000&dataset=95).

No the problem is that the class is unfair : to reach that level you need way more skill than a lot of other classes (okay I'm mostly looking at you RDM). In burst phases it's like a nuclear power plant control room : too many things to look up to at a very precise timing over a very long span of time. Time one of those things wrong : contagion, stimulation, aetherflow, transe, have all your oGCDs ready for Bahamut, mess with the timing of those things and watch your DPS plummet. Ok fine, I can appreciate difficulty, but that's a lot to track in the harder fights that are savages, compared to some classes.

Took me a several hours of dummy training to get it right : shouldn't have been the case for someone who played it for a long time, including savage. Yet it has.
Still in fight it gets and feels messy : shouldn't be the case for someone who played it for long, including savage. Yet it is.
That's a problem with ergonomy : they need to fix that.

Also, yeah death but SMN always had it harder than other classes so nothing new here.

Originally Posted by Aletin

The issue with SMN is the user friendliness, the rotation to achieve top dps is super tight and punishing upon death. Even using aetherflow wrong punishes you immensely.

Using [Forbidden Program Name] does display SMN DPS lower than it actually is, as [Forbidden Program Name] doesn't calculate Dreadwyrm Trance properly. So SMNs are usually have about 10% higher DPS than displayed.

While it is true that forbidden program messes with DWT, it's not 10% : it is 10% x uptime which is 25%, so it actually is 2.5%. Anyway, you're right : Elkanah, a single exemple isn't a rule. Check the fflog link : that's how it gets when averaged on 5K + players.

So damage : not an issue
Rotation to reach it : please fix it Yoshi and dev team.

**Savagelf** · 09-23-2017 10:55 AM

I think what SE need do return to summoner be a pet job class. the dreadwyrm trance kind see to me outplace in ffxiv summoner ability

I think one could improve the Egi themslef by introduce a trait that called Summon magic Mastery the allow Egi by lvl improve for 50 up. that each 10 lvl the Egi stage would change
such as Ifrits would change it for to be more powerful.

each summon has a role in mind

Ifrits is melee dps
Garuda range dps
Titan tank
so one could improve the Egi by focus on it that way
each Egi could have aura that buff each job Ifrits could melee dps aura garuda range dps aura. Titan could an ability soak damage of the tank called Titan ward

each Egi could go through stage of growth

for wisp form to a more permantel form this way you could still glamourized it back to Carbruncle

Thread: SMN 4.06 Changes

Thread Tools

Search Thread

Display

Dev. Posts

Hybrid View