4.05 - Tank DPS comparison

[Shinkyo]

Snip

Yes there are ways to make it a DPS gain under specific condition.
Theorycrafting is what it is and it only gives a general guideline.

[Quor]

Yes there are ways to make it a DPS gain under specific condition.
Theorycrafting is what it is and it only gives a general guideline.

If by "specific condition" you mean "all the time," then yes.

Bloodspiller has a higher potency-per-GCD than any other skill DRK has. It will always be a potency gain. Always. TBN provides what amounts to a "free" BS it pops. TBN costs the same MP as DA. DA on average grants 140 more potency per GCD skill that uses it, while TBN grants a 400 potency GCD skill. 400 > 140. As long as the 50 blood gained from TBN isn't wasted, then it's pure DPS gain over DA.

Bloodspiller is always a potency gain. TBN is always a potency gain, as long as the TBN is popped at least 1 out of every 2 times it is used. Always.

[Shinkyo]

If by "specific condition" you mean "all the time," then yes.

Bloodspiller has a higher potency-per-GCD than any other skill DRK has. It will always be a potency gain. Always. TBN provides what amounts to a "free" BS it pops. TBN costs the same MP as DA. DA on average grants 140 more potency per GCD skill that uses it, while TBN grants a 400 potency GCD skill. 400 > 140. As long as the 50 blood gained from TBN isn't wasted, then it's pure DPS gain over DA.

Bloodspiller is always a potency gain. TBN is always a potency gain, as long as the TBN is popped at least 1 out of ever 2 times it is used. Always.

Nope, nope, nope and nope.
Soul Eater combos is 700 potency, so your average GCD is 233 potency.
DA is a flat 140 potency increase so a DA buffed GCD is 373 potency which in isolation is lower than the 400 potency from TBN+DS for the same MP cost.
BS is a 167 potency over your average GCD while DA is 140 potency.


And this is where the opportunity cost of TBN+BS comes into play...
In order to get that 400 potency now, you have to give up on restored MP from Syphon Strike and Blood gauge from Soul Eater. It's not an issue if you only do it a few times during a fight but it will become relevant in the long run.
Out of grit, it is 1200MP and 10 gauge every for every 3 use of TBN+BS, or 400MP and 3.3 blood gauge per GCD on average.
And because there is a direct conversion of MP and blood gauge into potency (2400MP = 140 potency, 50 gauge = 167), you give up (140/2/3) + (167/5) = 56 potency worth of resource could have been spent later throughout the fight.

In short, TBN+BS is more potency right now but less potency in the long run later in the fight for personal DPS. Of course there is the valid argument that you may allow a healer to fit more DPS ability but really TBN on other people is just a regen tick.

I know this is not going to change your opinion and that's fine.
It's all theorycrafting and its validity in a fight will depend on the encounter.
What's important is the method how you evaluate an ability and realizing that there is always an opportunity cost to every move which may/may not be outweigh by the benefit.

[Quor]

snip

By the Twelve, this again.

Resources exist to be consumed. If you do not have full gauge, sure, then it's better to stick with SE combo (generally speaking). If, however, you are at full gauge, then it's better to use that gauge.

Likewise, you can't compare the "average" potency of an SE combo and say "well here's our PPGCD" because the PPGCD of BS is a pure GAIN compared to that of SE. You need 3 hits total to make SE combo worthwhile, while BS needs one single GCD to do all of it's damage. There is no opportunity cost. You are not losing out on anything any more than a WAR loses out on "beast gauge" by using Fell Cleave. Resources exist to be consumed. On a per GCD basis, BS will always give your potency than any other "potential" action, all things considered. It is not a "loss" to DRK PPGCD. It's a pure gain, and TBN enables even more pure gain when used correctly.

Going further:

Soul Eater combos is 700 potency, so your average GCD is 233 potency.
DA is a flat 140 potency increase so a DA buffed GCD is 373 potency which in isolation is lower than the 400 potency from TBN+DS for the same MP cost.
BS is a 167 potency over your average GCD while DA is 140 potency.

This average GCD stuff needs to stop. It's useful, but only as a general understanding, because you need to look beyond a single combo to understand that there isn't just a flat gain of 233 potency each GCD. Combos work in stages, and higher potency moves are always going to be more valuable than starting a combo over from the baseline (which typically runs at 150 potency).

4 GCD's of just SE combo look like this:
HS (150p) > SS (250p) > SE (300p) > HS (150p) for a total of 850 potency.

4 GCD's of SE + BS at the end looks like this:
HS (150p) > SS (250p) > SE (300p) > BS (400p) for a total of 1100 potency.

Explain to me how this is worse. BS is basically an attack that says "here, have 400 potency instead of what you were going to get." It is and always will be a pure damage increase, unless you're not capped on blood and you plan on unleashing more BS in a shorter time period sometime in the near future. But at that point you're not choosing damage or no damage, you're just delaying the inevitable. BS will always be a damage gain. TBN, if it pops, grants a free BS, which in turn will always be a damage gain over anything else single target that you would use DA on.

Oh, and almost forgot, you can't just add 140 potency from DA to the "average" because Hard Slash doesn't benefit from DA. So you're math is flawed there. DA would only provide 2/3 of 140, or about 93 potency. By your math, that brings the average GCD potency up from 233 to 326 (instead of 373), and your second comparison would be 167 for BS compared to 93 for DA. Of course, this doesn't detract from the central premise being trash, just further evidence that the methodology is inherently flawed.