Quote Originally Posted by Shurrikhan View Post
Actually it's changed immensely, in a way similar to how Ninja has through the removal of 2nd tier Shadow Fang and Mutilate. You now only have cycles of exactly 3 weaponskills, rather than being able to stretch each cycle from 3 to 5 GCDs. This means that rather than having complete control, within any given GCD, of your clipping, you now have control only within 3 GCDs.

I'm curious as to what you consider gameplay. To me, rotational control certainly contributes part of that.So does the viability and accessibility of cleave dps (e.g. multi-DoTing). The extension or reduction of (de)buff windows is immensely affective to rotation.



From any perspective but aesthetics, gameplay now is about as similar to ARR Dragoon as it is to ARR Monk. And as Stormblood has since worked almost solely to the effect of devaluing Heavensward Monk tools as they amount to actual choices and button-presses (gameplay rather than mere numbers), it's far from unchanged since then, either.

I get the feeling that you either didn't play much Heavensward Monk or have yet to play it in Stormblood...

I'm not saying the latter is outright horrible, but it has arguably less complexity, and certainly less control, than it did in ARR. (Which actually didn't increase by all that much in Heavensward; it just filled out areas in which we previously had no control or contribution, in an minimalistic but intelligent manner.)
Firstly I respect your post a lot more than I respect the baby rager's post before it. Your comments actually read with intelligence.

You're right, I haven't played any of SB's MNK because it has always been the least interesting melee DPS job in my eyes. I did dabble in 3.0 MNK from time to time, but it was indeed a rarity.
My major point here is that the changes in MNK gameplay is insignificant compared to a lot of the jobs that got changed. From a technicality standpoint, sure I will give you that - they recieved some adjustments that slightly decreased their gameplay, however if the belief is that it is anywhere near on the scale as the many other jobs that people are complaining about - I can't agree there.

I do consider rotational control a part of gameplay, however I still don't see how it's immensely different to 2.0 & 3.0 MNK.
You do a couple of less skills? Big whoop. The job has always been extremely rotational and pressing 3 combos repeatedly isn't much different to pressing 5 combos repeatedly.
I mean, do you even notice the "rotation"? Because when it feels like I am just pressing the button that will give me the buff/DoT that's about to fall off.

If the argument is that it hasn't seen gameplay BUFFS since ARR, then I would agree, however I can't actually get on board with you and say that it has changed a whole lot - which would constitute gameplay nerfs.

Just compare the changes to MNK to the changes that DRG saw.
Sure they gained a rage-like stance similar to SMN, however their interplay of actually having to dance around and pay attention with Fang/Wheeling, or the removal of pushing as many skoguls without dropping BotD, paired with their 827398138912638 skill "rotation" (which in my eyes no longer becomes a rotation), down to simple 1-2-3-4-5 combos with a few OGCD weaves when they come off cooldown.. MNK is not even in the competition by this point.
This doesn't even mention that many of the "gameplay nerfs" that MNK recieved, DRG as well.

Again, if your argument is that MNK didn't see many gameplay improvements over the years since ARR, I would agree. However I can't agree that the loss of a few skills and a rather slight adjustment to their very static, short rotation is really a huge enough change to baby rage about (which I notice you're not doing, and can respect).