Yoshi-P's stance on BRD/MCH buffing themselves

[Deceptus]

From: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...atsuyama_fate/

Some players at the Matsuyama F.A.T.E (where tonight's live letter will take place) had the opportunity to ask questions to Yoshida at the event.

A ranged DPS asked if the devs would give the 2 ranged DPS "disembowel" (so they don't have to rely on drgs), but they said no because the ranged DPS would be too overpowered.

The player above complained about how the devs do not understand the problem, and how everything is based around having a dragoon. His friend asked a follow up question, but his response was "Then we would have to reduce the DPS on ranged DPS". They will reveal details on job balance during the next live letter.

[echo78]

Just delete disembowel already and buff DRG's personal DPS to make up for it lol

[HyoMinPark]

Just delete disembowel already and buff DRG's personal DPS to make up for it lol

^ I’m with this. Just freaking delete Disembowel from the game already. Every other physical DPS can “buff themselves” with their respective resistance downs, but screw BRD/MCH. Because “too OP”. Way to just continue to reinforce the DRG/BRD/MCH meta.

This logic makes absolutely no freaking sense. You have got to be kidding me. I’m convinced they don’t actually know how to balance jobs. Too busy making mobile apps and thinking up of microtransactions, I suppose.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

A ranged DPS asked if the devs would give the 2 ranged DPS "disembowel" (so they don't have to rely on drgs), but they said no because the ranged DPS would be too overpowered.

This is no kind way to state how absolutely stupid this statement is. How is giving them a buff that already exists making them overpowered? This simply reinforces statics wanting Dragoon, which is precisely what the devs constantly whining about disliking. If nothing else, give it to another job.

Furthermore, if piercing makes physical range overpowered. What does that make Dragoon, who will almost always be in a serious raid group?

[Zojha]

How is giving them a buff that already exists making them overpowered?

And even if you do accept that statement as valid, then he's essentially saying that he knows BRD/MCH are overpowered when a DRG is present, but does nothing about them being overpowered. In that case, he'd be admitting to knowingly keeping an imbalance around.

But Yoshida has said a lot of wonky things in the past. Just take a look at his latest statement about tank accessories. Or his explanation on how they tune fights. Or his statement on healer balance in PvP. I'm honestly starting to get used to it by now. I'd just love to know why he's saying so much stuff that makes people facepalm - Lost in translation? Too distanced from the game? Is it the coffee talking? Oh well.

[zuzu-bq]

And even if you do accept that statement as valid, then he's essentially saying that he knows BRD/MCH are overpowered when a DRG is present, but does nothing about them being overpowered. In that case, he'd be admitting to knowingly keeping an imbalance around.

This is the funniest part of him making that statement.

[Kitfox]

Disembowel is part of DRG's raid dps kit, therefore giving piercing debuff to BRD/MCH would devalue DRG's total raid contribution by 5-10%. They would have to balance this by buffing DRG's personal dps by 5-10% to make up for it. That would also mean that BRD/MCH would get a free +5% damage buff when there is no DRG present. This is a flat out buff and exactly what people mean when they say BRD/MCH would become overpowered, BRD already provides massive amounts of raid dps even with their low personal numbers and another +5% buff would be absolutely broken. They would have to lower BRD/MCH personal dps by 5% to avoid buffing them from current numbers to account for the 100% piercing regardless of comp. This is the same net result as just getting rid of piercing debuff altogether and just increasing DRG's personal dps to make up for it.

BRD/MCH are currently not overpowered with DRG in the party, because that's taken into account in DRG's lower personal numbers. You wouldn't have your dps numbers as BRD/MCH without the DRG in the party, DRG is the corner stone of this whole affair. It is DRG who becomes underpowered in their raid contribution without ranged classes in the party. To put it into perspective, taking piercing contribution (~300-600 dps depending on single or double ranged comp) away from DRG is almost the same as taking Trick Attack (~600-900 dps again depending on comp and utilization) away from NIN.

Ask yourself, who in their right mind would take a NIN, that doesn't Trick Attack, into their party? Because that is the situation DRG is in if you just give piercing to BRD/MCH without adjusting all the related dps values. SE was absolutely correct in their response to the question and the people asking the question fail to see the big picture in terms of raid contributions.

Just delete disembowel already and buff DRG's personal DPS to make up for it lol

This would be the best and easiest approach. They should do this to every weapon type debuff.

[Shurrikhan]

See, I could maybe understand, say, all enemies having an actual Defense stat that Disembowel then reduces. I could even understand Piercing damage, if damage types are to remain either taking greater advantage of Defense Penetration or taking a greater hit from Defense normally (i.e. Blunt automatically ignores x portion of Defense, Slashing a lesser portion, and Piercing none at all, but has higher base potency to compensate), such that Disembowel has a stronger impact on Piercing damage than on Slashing and Blunt.

But even then you'd run into an imbalance between Full Party and lesser-sized parties, as whatever pDPS remains after making Dragoon rDPS-equitable in an 8-man party would be too little for it to be equitable in, say, a 4-man party. While this may be irrelevant until such a time as difficult content is made for anything other than 8-man content, it's a fundamental issue with all means of indirect damage contribution in this game, as each scales infinitely. A better solution may be to provide a modifier which depletes over actual (e.g. bonus damage) use, greatly tightening scalability (though potentially adding some additional rotational variance).

But having a sole provider of a damage buff, even a "mere" 5% one, hasn't been acceptable since its provider was already required just to avoid duplicate jobs (i.e. pre-Ninja Warrior). Unless Bard or Machinist somehow lose rDPS by lack of some alternative utility (e.g. an additional caster to Mana Shift them, in place of that Piercing buff, if they were actually worthwhile targets for MS) to make up for their pDPS bonus, Dragoon should not be the sole provider of such a large advantage. More even than it binds Bard and Machinist to Dragoon, it bind Dragoon to them, to the point than any other melee (except perhaps, sadly, SAM) would be better taken if no ranged DPS is present.

[Removing Disembowel and compensating Dragoon potencies for its personal bonus damage and rDPS loss] would be the best and easiest approach. They should do this to every weapon type debuff.

That, however, seems unnecessary. Slashing and Blunt debuffs both manage to make something decently fun out of those debuffs. The only problematic one is truly just Disembowel, both in that it feels unimpactful for the Dragoon itself and has too great of scalability outside himself.

[Kabooa]

^ I’m with this. Just freaking delete Disembowel from the game already. Every other physical DPS can “buff themselves” with their respective resistance downs, but screw BRD/MCH. Because “too OP”. Way to just continue to reinforce the DRG/BRD/MCH meta.

This logic makes absolutely no freaking sense. You have got to be kidding me. I’m convinced they don’t actually know how to balance jobs. Too busy making mobile apps and thinking up of microtransactions, I suppose.

I can explain this pretty easily.

Every job that applies their own Permanent Resistance Down takes that into account when tallying their final damage output. This goes into their 'budget' and includes their defensive options, their party buffing, and any utility they bring.

The issue is we currently have jobs that don't adhere to these rules.

Warrior, Monk, Bard, and Machinist.

Warrior and Monk are sort of in the 'too good' camp. They don't really seem to suffer in any notable area currently, while you have Samurai and Dark Knight on the opposing end, who don't seem to get -good enough- at anything to warrant the holes.

Mach and bard are pretty well balanced without Disembowel, and frankly, adding it to them likely means you just get dumped on base power so you end up in the same spot.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

They feel it's too strong to give to rant ged themselves....so they'll continue to let DRG completely monopolize the buff for no actual reason....ok?

They need to let Disembowl go already, it was balanced in 2.0, where you only had two melee to choose from anyway. Things are different now, give ranged their own debuff, or at least give someone else the piercing debuff as well so DRG doesn't monopolize it.