SAM out classing all other DPS

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Isn't it more, other jobs are just not tuned well enough? Why do we have to say SAM is OP, when its more likely that its actually tuned well, and the other jobs are not tuned well enough. Nerfs are horrible, lets not promote them

[Oscura]

Isn't it more, other jobs are just not tuned well enough? Why do we have to say SAM is OP, when its more likely that its actually tuned well, and the other jobs are not tuned well enough. Nerfs are horrible, lets not promote them

I've said twice in this thread that I'd rather the other classes be buffed instead of SAM being nerfed. I'm not here to put SAM players down nor am I here to say "nerf the class into the ground SE my class isn't as good!" I have never once said "I want SAM to be nerfed."

I don't trust SE to properly buff the other classes, and we've seen with WAR and SCH that they just love to nerf stuff that was or is considered too strong. I am just realistically preparing myself for the fact that SE might take the easy way out, nerfing, instead of putting serious effort and thought into it all, and buffing the other classes.

Trust me you wouldn't hear a complaint out of me if I heard DRG or MCH was getting a proper buff or that MNK's brotherhood wasn't so meaningless when compared to Embolden or Trick Attack, I'd simply nod and wait to see out the differences.

I'm pretty sure I'm done posting here, since I'm just posting in circles at this point. Not to mention, everyone is convinced I have some personal grudge against them or their class. Or that I want my class or a certain one to be the best. I don't. I'm just very passionate about the DPS classes in this game. I would just rather not the game become "SAM+NIN and some random guys we picked up along the way" for DPS. That's it. I got tired of the holy trifecta of DRG+MCH+NIN as it was in 3.0. I was the DRG in my party for that garbage too.

[Lastelli]

Mana accumulation is not buildup time by any logic, unless you're implying that RDM rotation is based only on the 5 seconds melee combo. And it was you who wrote that "I also just told him a lot of people are playing Red Mages, but there is only two on the entire list."
So you were clearly implying that there should be more RDMs on that list because it is popular, ignoring what RDM brings to the party. And again, I said this before, but looking at the player damage rankings is really a bad choice. What you should be looking at is the static speed ranking and analyze how SAM performs in those parties compared to other party members since we can reasonable assume a similar skill level among players in that data.

Isn't it more, other jobs are just not tuned well enough? Why do we have to say SAM is OP, when its more likely that its actually tuned well, and the other jobs are not tuned well enough. Nerfs are horrible, lets not promote them

Because what matters is relative performace. Buff MNK damage by 5% and SAM suddenly becomes useless and we will have a MNK/NIN meta. Buff DRG dps by 5-10% and we will have a DRG/NIN meta...again.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

So you are basically just setting yourself up for disappointment, and then also pushing that self generated sadness on everyone else, because you don't trust SE? I don't understand why you don't just, like, let it go?

[Oscura]

So you are basically just setting yourself up for disappointment, and then also pushing that self generated sadness on everyone else, because you don't trust SE? I don't understand why you don't just, like, let it go?

I'm not pushing "self generated sadness" on anyone. I am simply being critical. I am critical of Red Mage. I am critical of Samurai. I was critical of Warrior. I was critical of Scholar. I was critical of the DRG/NIN/MCH meta. I am critical of NIN to this day. I'm not setting myself up for disappointment, because at the end of the day I will play the class I want. If I like Samurai the most of the DPS. I will play that. Playing Samurai will not change my stance on it, however. Whether or not they nerf, buff or ignore SAM is not up to me nor will it ultimately influence how I play. I will still play how I want. I just like encouraging discussion about classes and/or their place in balance, or how well they work in comps etc.

Again, you assume I have some personal stake, or that most posts are generated by negative emotion over than enthusiasm and enjoyment. I enjoy DPS, I enjoy this game, I enjoy playing DPS, so I am passionate about it. But I would never take out my anger, frustration, sadness or stress out on the forums against other people. That's just lashing out and no one deserves to be treated like that. I just follow the belief that if something can't be criticized it's perfect, and nothing is perfect because if it is that means there's nothing to strive for.

Regardless, this topic is not about me, it's about whether or not SAM is "OP." So let's please drop it here.

[Galvuu]

Or since theres a high population of samurai right now, and not many monks, the numbers are skewed. But lets continue with hating on SAM for no reason.

This is a good point, and you can technically see how many parses for each job are available for the last two weeks, actually, to see if the data we're working with reflect that skewness.
You have 25k SAM and RDM players, then an interesting 21K BRDs (guess the removal of WM was quite popular), then DRG and NIN at around 14k and the rest under 10k.
So this is a good point.
Conversely, it also makes you raise your eyebrows if a lot of people flock to a new job and are already quite capable of putting the others behind with such a gap (mind you, most people who stuck with the other jobs were probably mains already and had less to learn/adjust to).

[Nominous]

I'm not pushing "self generated sadness" on anyone. I am simply being critical. I am critical of Red Mage. I am critical of Samurai. I was critical of Warrior. I was critical of Scholar. I was critical of the DRG/NIN/MCH meta.

Being critical is good, when necessary. People over-exaggerate with threads and opinions though, and that's almost precisely why Jobs get over-buffed, which is what you apparently despise. Because people over-exaggerate, and x buff isn't enough. They tried being patient with AST buffs in 3.xx. They didn't become broken overnight. It's just that no buff was enough, even though they did it on like 2 or 3 separate occasions BEFORE the balance got crazy. It never ends, and it just results in a vicious cycle in which each Job gets 'chosen' to be meta every expansion, while others are left behind.

And I get why people criticize too. I was a DRG in 2.0 when I was an actual detriment to teams, what with barely living through magical defense hits. It sucks when people look at you, fully justified, like you're a liability. But then because of that, DRG became better. Now DRG is worse. Now there's a case to make DRG far better. Then NIN or SAM will be worse. Then again, and over and over. And a lot of the time, because people aren't fine just being satisfactory, even though 'satisfactory' in this game is way better than other MMO's.

Balance cannot be attained without a sacrifice- usually fun factors, or unique characteristics, and people complain just as much about losing that. We should all wait until Omega, but I doubt any current Job is going to make things much harder by being 10-15% behind a SAM, when you factor in their own utility to the party.

[Galvuu]

snip

That isn't the whole story, and I'm not letting SE off the hook here.
When AST came out, people said it wasn't strong enough and needed a lot of work in some areas (same for MCH, and there was the BRD thing with WM not being worth jack at first, though I don't remember this so well, so grain of salt with this one).
Instead, they pulled out the old "y'all don't know what you're doing, we tried it here and it's just right".
So they leave and underpowered class to rot for a patch and a half while ignoring criticisms of it- thus letting the public perception of "AST is garbage" set almost permanently.
Then, months later, they tune it better and scramble to repair the damage that's been done- but it's already in the collective memory that "AST is worthless". So the only way to show it otherwise is to overbuff it.
Even then, did anyone really think AST was weak in 3.4/3.5? Pretty sure the general perception became that it was getting centralizing (especially when you account for Balance rng).

If the balance team acted faster, many of these situations could be averted. Which would be nice, since they tend to have a lasting impact.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

In any other game, if all the top players or even most of the top players are always using the same character or one character in their team, party or whatever, that character is eventually recognized as imbalanced. Overwatch had the same problem. Mccree had an over 100% use rate at one point.

Hi. I'm Ninja. I've been a requirement in every static since my inception due to my decent personal dps, forgiving rotation, and TA, which is the single most reliable dps raid buff that any job in game can boast, with dependable gains and an absolutely massive effect to everyone in my team. Don't worry, I'm still a mandatory requirement for every serious static, regardless of what anyone else thinks, regardless of damage type.

Seriously. Ninja is the only job that's been used 100% since release in 2.4, with every other job falling in and out of the meta. Remind me again why SAM doing good damage is a problem?

[Oscura]

Hi. I'm Ninja. I've been a requirement in every static since my inception due to my decent personal dps, forgiving rotation, and TA, which is the single most reliable dps raid buff that any job in game can boast, with dependable gains and an absolutely massive effect to everyone in my team. Don't worry, I'm still a mandatory requirement for every serious static, regardless of what anyone else thinks, regardless of damage type.

Seriously. Ninja is the only job that's been used 100% since release in 2.4, with every other job falling in and out of the meta. Remind me again why SAM doing good damage is a problem?

I am critical of Red Mage. I am critical of Samurai. I was critical of Warrior. I was critical of Scholar. I was critical of the DRG/NIN/MCH meta. I am critical of NIN to this day.

Please learn to read.

I am not going to go on a rant or talk about Ninja in a Samurai centered thread.