SAM out classing all other DPS

[Barghest1210]

Salt aside my problem with Sam isnt their damage, I just wanna see that like any other melee dps bad play is punished with more then just a missed opportunity. As it stands if a bad Sam fucks up they still have enough damage to outshine other class with how high their potencies are. I think this can be adjusted if you increase the kenki generation of abilities but allow it and Sen to fall off over time.

damn autocorrect

[magnanimousCynic]

damn autocorrect

You know you can edit your posts, right? :P

[Kacho_Nacho]

The latest post by Yoshida-san is enlightening. It is pleasing to read the devs are looking at the utility each damage dealer brings as well as its damage dealing capability as SE makes its adjustments. it makes me want to play both my samurai and my dragoon.

[HoLoFoNo]

The latest post by Yoshida-san is enlightening. It is pleasing to read the devs are looking at the utility each damage dealer brings as well as its damage dealing capability as SE makes its adjustments. it makes me want to play both my samurai and my dragoon.

I feel bad for replying to this, but this exact philosophy is dogshit anyway.

First of all ,why would you just completely change the paradigms of the class every expansion? Is the next expansion gonna have MNK be the 'support melee'? I've never really liked the idea of synergy anyway. When you focus too much on that you get classes that won't be used because their 'partner' is relatively bad so that is 2 classes that lose out (case in point see DRG + BRD/MCH vs SAM/SAM) but this is more of a personal thought rather than an actual argument. My issue is that I choose DRG as my main however I'm not much for support DPS. I could have surmised based on the class skills, but I had no idea of knowing the DRG would be a utility based melee. I honestly think the bulk of the utility should be left for the dexterity classes so it is more straightforward.

Their logic is flawed. As a visual aids I will use generic numbers to highlight what they were supposedly going for (based on the SSS dummies)

SAM - 0 offensive utility - 3850 dps
NIN/MNK - 1 offensive utility - 3625 dps (though in an actual fight, MNK has the edge from brotherhood actually having effect. At the same time trick attack isn't even on the same level as brotherhood, but this just highlights how they didn't think it through)
DRG - 3 offensive utilities - 3400 dps

Now you would look at that, and say based on that alone 'ah that makes sense'. However in a practical application, not only does nobody want to actually play a support dps as a DRG but DRG is plagued with practicality issues atm. Even if what DRG had was indeed sufficient, the class itself has a lower efficiency rating in fights due to how its resources works. So not only are DRGs weak, but they are also inflexible unlike the other dps which are similar to it (BRD/MCH, very flexible) so its more work for similar output to these classes.

Samurai on the other hand is fine. Regardless of how good or bad samurai is it will always be popular due to the nature of the class (weeb/rper/edge lord bait) but I think it could stay as it is.

[Kacho_Nacho]

I feel bad for replying to this, but this exact philosophy is dogshit anyway.

First of all ,why would you just completely change the paradigms of the class every expansion? Is the next expansion gonna have MNK be the 'support melee'? I've never really liked the idea of synergy anyway. *snippers*

Samurai on the other hand is fine. Regardless of how good or bad samurai is it will always be popular due to the nature of the class (weeb/rper/edge lord bait) but I think it could stay as it is.

*blinks*

Dogshit?* Isn't that a pretty harsh dismissal of the only logical way of balance our damage dealers?


Now, I get your frustration with the paradigm shift. I've argued (in WoW) until I was completely worn out that reinventing the wheel every expansion is a bad use of developer time. "Get your classes balanced then give us exciting challenges from now on" is my refrain.

Synergy is one of those things which both adds to the game and subtracts. It's cool to see what players can come up with, but at the same time, it gets folks thinking too much about the meta instead of how to play well with the party you've got.

Now, I am going to politely disagree with your statement that people don't want to play a support damage dealer. People have different tastes. Some love being samurai, others like dragoons, while other enjoy red mages. A lot has to do with class fantasy, such as those weebs and edge lord baits* you mention but others just fall in love with how the job plays or what they bring to the table. I love dragoon and am leveling it in conjunction with my other jobs on my alt, Nonomy Nomy.

*You have a lot of attitude. Sheesh.

[HoLoFoNo]

Stuff

It seems you missed my point regarding the support DPS. I specifically said that nobody choose DRG because they wanted to play a support melee as that was never the class's point nor function. Typically that was the role of NIN and from your reply you clearly understand what it feels like so I'm not going to continue with this point.

Now specifically regarding utility vs dps: No I don't actually think its a good way of balancing because the whole idea of making a job pseudo support means that it starts to become a game of dependencies; case in point look at the whole BRD/MCH needing DRG to reach full potential and the fact that astro now is so coveted because of the nonsense that is The Balance. Now it is slightly different for a healer as something like The Balance is offensive utility which is provided from something that otherwise isn't supposed to focus on doing damage but now imagine if something like DRG or BRD had balance then what kind of game would we be playing?

The fflogs 'game' is already bad enough with the epeening and the elitism from people who aren't even good in the first place yet get a superiority complex because they 'saw it on fflogs' so imagine what it would be like if they started to take the 'utility' further and gave classes something like the balance it would turn into something similar to what the 3.4 meta was where it was just 'stack as much offensive utility as possible cause them multipliers' and the casters and MNK became memes. I honestly think DPS should just have 1 sort of party buff maximum because they seem to be unable to correctly balance classes damage vs utility. Based on your comments on synergy it's obvious you understand this also.

Also how is that having an attitude? It is completely true. This is a roleplaying game, a Japanese one with pretty catgirls and shit at that and it attracts a very predictable demographic. Look at the popularity of SAM/RDM or hell even NIN compared to MCH. SAM pretty much panders to their every want so even if it wasn't top DPS then it will still have people playing it.

[Meng_Qing]

Samurai is meant to be on top of the DPS chart, but seeing how ahead it is, it does exactly what is the on tin. For it to perform 200-300 above the second job, it makes sense. Now you can argue BLM is the same, little utility, but amazing damage, it should be on par with Samurai. However it is a range class that can constantly hit, but it requires deep knowledge of positioning and knowledge.

Do you feel rewarded on pulling off your rotation cleanly?

[Barghest1210]

You know you can edit your posts, right? :P

I'm not on the full site I'm at work on my phone and can't find the edit button :P

[Inuk9]

Let's say MNK\NIN are doing 100
Let's say DRG is doing 90
SAM should be doing 120. Now he is doing 150.

[Lastelli]

Let's say MNK\NIN are doing 100
Let's say DRG is doing 90
SAM should be doing 120. Now he is doing 150.

False, the data is easily available and analyzable and it's more around 110. You do realize you're suggesting that SAM is doing 50% more damage than NIN/MNK, right? You do realize that NIN can go as high as 4k dps in susano (and MNK even higher than that) and if SAM dps really was 150% of that it would be at 6k dps...right?