SAM out classing all other DPS

[BlackThought]

The problem is, if you nerf SAM to the point where other jobs with more utility make up for the loss of damage, you effectively make SAM worthless in a raid.

Which is literally where 'degrees' comes in. Balance is a worthy pursuit and this circular argument is tired.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Which is literally where 'degrees' comes in. Balance is a worthy pursuit and this circular argument is tired.

Ok, then how much do you nerf it? any more than it is, and its within the 5% utility of most other high hitting jobs.

[Aomine1992]

The rotation isn't that easy, and I've had ninjas and monks keep up with me and got out dps'ed by a black mage sooo it depends on people knowing their rotation on those other classes trust me there are some horrible SAMs

[Blacktestament7]

Let me rephrase.
You seem to be a MNK main, so no matter what you do, no matter how hard you try, a SAM player with the same skill level as you will constantly be between 10 to 15% above you.
To a DRG, this difference in DPS jumps to 15 to 20%.
In short, if you want to buff every DPS job to be roughly at the same level as SAM, you need to give everyone (but SAM, obviously), the equivalent of apermanent AoE Balance effect or a regular one for the worst jobs.

If you think that: 1) it doesn't make SAM OP, and/or 2) encounter balance won't be drastically affected, then you are completly delusional.

I'm a SAM/MNK main that doesn't know which I'm going to end up raiding with, if I do at all at this point. But again, if you nerf or buff SAM to be only 3% to 5% higher than the second highest other mdps you will make the job obsolete. It's not about personal dps, it's about how much I bring to the team. If a SAM is doing 10% to 20% higher damage, good. My job isn't to match that as a MNK my job is to push my damage as high as I can and provide a 5% buff to that SAM to increase it's dps when I can. If you take that damage away, why would you ever bring a SAM to anything. If DRG matched SAM, why wouldn't I take that class when it has bat litany, dragon sight, and a debuff that applies to three other classes. If NIN matched SAM, there's zero reason I wouldn't take that instead when it gives a 10% damage up every minute to the party. The lack of utility is a problem in and of itself and will always be one but if the FFteam keeps making these kind of classes you have to balance it this way. There's no alternative. This has already happened before and I'm lost on why you would want it to happen again.

As for the encounter balance issue, nerfing one class to oblivion isn't going to do anything but imbalance the classes to the point where said class is played in any scenario. Pretty much how MCH is sitting now and for some reason people want SAM to be there for whatever reason. Every class will be nerfed or buffed to a point where encounter balance will be skewed regardless. This isn't something that's going to be avoided, it's an eventuality. Even then SAM isn't op to the point that it makes any class unviable either. While I think DRG is lower than it should be it's not low enough to warrant nerfing SAM just because someone has DPS envy.

[Shiroe]

Just the gap is too big:

A) making the other jobs feels less rewarding
B) making too many flock over to Sam, Sam will be (if not already) overused
C) making it hard for casters (or mch) get a spot in farm pfs
D) making one player/dps hog all the big buffs, Sam (good night FFLogs)


We've seen how unbalanced/ over the top classes are not good gor the game. Sam might not need a nerf, but some others a slight buff. And Sam doesn't seem to get punished much either, compared to other classes.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

A bad SAM and a good SAM are night and day. a bad SAM does about half the dps lol.

[Oscura]

Not if there are only 3 members. if there are 4 members, and each of them has utility that would make up for the DPS that replacing one of them with a SAM would, then why bring a SAM, since the utility would buff the other jobs as well. Including tanks/healer dps

If four members of the group are physical, in the case with a monk being DPS, then it would possibly be the two tanks, a monk, and a samurai, or instead a ninja. Here's the problem. Monk applying 5% physical dps ever 75 seconds to the NIN and two tanks won't beat out the Samurai. Tanks no longer do proper damage. Right now, the only reason tanks have any decent parses is because people keep stubbornly using slaying accessories from 3.4. It won't fly the more difficult the content becomes. Ninja's trick attack may make up for Samurai with the Monk there. The problem? That means there's no reason to have a Monk. Monk's own buff does not apply to it. Only surrounding physical attackers. If you have 2 casters in your party a monk is no longer necessary. A samurai can piggyback off of a Red Mage's embolden and a Ninja's trick attack far better than them. Monk giving 5% to a ninja and two tanks can't even compare.

As it stands, most of the group utility in added this patch is biased towards physical. Most dragoons will never use their dragon's sight on anyone but a tank or a melee since it has pathetic range. Embolden only buffs the physical attacks of anyone not the red mage. Brotherhood only buffs the physical attacks of anyone not the monk. The difference is that SAM does not need utility in order to shine, nor does it need support, where as DRG, MCH, and arguably MNK do. It also works together with all these buffs far better than most other classes, since obviously buffing the highest damage dealer is the best option. Right now, most utility exists to further push Samurai's damage, people would rather sacrifice a small amount of utility to bring a Samurai in to piggyback off the rest. It is not that the other classes don't do the same DPS, but that in certain comps at certain skill levels, there comes a point of "why not just take a samurai?" If a group were to have three casters, the only dps that could seriously compete for a spot against Samurai is a Ninja. That was my original point.

Edit: If I had an "ultimate point," or a tl;dr, it's just that most of the utility aside from Ninja just isn't strong enough to compete with outclassing a Samurai's damage. I've yet to see any mathematical proof that one class replacing a Samurai spot will bring overall more (raid) dps than a Samurai taking that spot itself.

[Ryaz]

One thing I will say about this thread... I can definitely see why SE doesn't like parsers. People really do care only about numbers.

[Oscura]

One thing I will say about this thread... I can definitely see why SE doesn't like parsers. People really do care only about numbers.

SE doesn't dislike parsers because people care about numbers. They're afraid of harassment and a certain incident in the JP community also lit that fire.

Also yes, people only care about numbers, because everything in a MMORPG is decided by numbers. Whether or not you get loot is decided by a number. Whether or not you survive an attack is decided by an equation of numbers. How much damage you do is decided by a number. Hell, whether or not you're able to gather something is also decided by a percentage, or a number.

This ridiculous notion that "numbers don't matter," when they decide absolutely everything aside from player skill is getting very annoying.

[GospelVhae]

This ridiculous notion that "numbers don't matter," when they decide absolutely everything aside from player skill is getting very annoying.

I can imagine this guy playing his SAM and shrugging off whatever damage values he gets

"hm, 26k Midare Satsugekka"